Interviewed by Shannon West
February 17, 2007 

In 1977 Russell Ferrante, Jimmy Haslip, and Ricky Lawson met while working on an album with guitarist Robben Ford. Ford's record company wanted him to follow up with a vocal album but the group wanted to stay together and do some more instrumentals. They named themselves the Yellowjackets and released their first album on Warner Bros in 1981. The band has continued with Ferrente and Haslip remaining on board and only a few personnel changes over the years. They celebrated their 25th anniversary in 2006 with the release of a live concert CD/DVD package appropriately entitled 25. Both Ferrante and Haslip have also collaborated and toured with numerous other artists. You'll find their names somewhere in the liner notes of most of the significant contemporary jazz releases over the last 3 decades. Haslip has also released two solo albums, Arc and Red Heat, has a third in the works and is continuing to establish himself as a producer, most recently working on Marilyn Scott and Michael Franks' latest releases. He and Robben Ford have also continued to play together in the jazz/rock/progressive trio Jing Chi. I caught up with him right before the Yellowjackets arrived in Jacksonville to do a concert and conduct master classes for the University of North Florida Jazz Department.

SV: The band is reworking a lot of older material on 25. How did you pick the songs and go about evolving them to who you are now?
JH: We have so much material that it was a difficult choice to make. We have over 320 pieces of music and trying to pick a variety of music that might extensively reach all the fans and include all their favorites was virtually impossible to think about. We mostly picked stuff that was in the repertoire that we felt spanned the 25 years on some level, although we didn’t touch on every project. Counting this one there are 19 albums and that’s an insurmountable amount of material to retrospect on one project. We picked things we were comfortable with that hopefully also had some evolution over the years so it would be different from the original recording and express where the band was after 25 years.

SV: Was that one of the reasons why the CD, which is also live, has different songs from the DVD?
JH: It had something to do with that and part of that was picking the best performances as far as the audio CD. Originally the record company was just going to do the DVD and all the music from the DVD was going to be on the audio CD. We felt that might be redundant and we felt like the material wasn’t going to hold up as an audio CD. With the DVD you have the visual and the audio in one viewing and in our case we feel that it’s very “forgiving” (laughs). Fortunately we recorded seven concerts that weren’t filmed, they were just audio. We found this one concert we did in Paris that we felt was a wonderful performance and felt right, so we were comfortable with that being put out solely in audio. We kept the recording for the DVD as it was. So we gave the audience two separate concerts. I think that made the package much more valuable.

SV: It's really comprehensive. It was quite a gift for your fans and we thank you for it.
JH: It’s our pleasure. We were definitely thinking about that as well. We've been around 25 years, now going on 26,  and they've supported us. We wanted to thank them and give them something that’s a really good quality package

SV: You think about groups with some longevity and in most cases they have brought in new musicians as others moved on and the new ones meshed into the sound the group already had. Every time this band has brought in a new member it’s created an evolution and a different musical direction for you.
JH:   We take any new member that comes into the club seriously and we want those people to contribute and to shape the sound of whatever is going on at the time. We’re not afraid to open the door and experiment. Having someone new come into the band is the perfect opportunity to allow that to take its full course. I consider it an evolution, and I think that’s a unique situation as far as the way most groups work, but I like being able to accomplish something like that with a personnel change, which is not always the most pleasant thing to go through. We’ve been lucky because there hasn’t been a personnel change that’s been ugly. They have always been professional and there’s always been a good reason why a person left the group. There have always been incredible resources to bring new people into the group. That certainly is the case being that Russ and I are the founding members left in the band. A perfect example of that is Bob Mintzer and Marcus Baylor who are the other present members.

SV: A lot of people thought that your musical focus really shifted when Bob Mintzer joined the group but you were evolving away from the pop and R&B side for quite a while before that when Marc Russo was still with you.
JH: That’s true. When Marc left the band in 1990 he had some opportunities financially in a place that he wanted to move into and he had a growing family. He didn’t really care about going on the road that much. It was a wonderful opportunity for him although I know he loved being in the Yellowjackets. Actually when William Kennedy came in in 1987 that’s when the band took a little shift and Marc Russo was part of that. It was moving in that direction and having Will Kennedy join the band kind of pushed the envelope at that time. Then we were really experimenting quite a bit from 1987 to 1990, which is when Marc left. Then when Bob Mintzer joined the band in ’91 it definitely took another leap. He was the main contributor to that because he brought in this very traditional side of jazz music and he was also a multi instrumentalist. He came in with Tenor, Soprano, Bass Clarinet, EWI,  Alto Flute, and he was also a leader of a big band so he brought in all his writing and arranging skills. That added quite a large scope of creativity into the band. As far as the band continuing to grow and  evolve and experiment that’s a constant in this group and at this point moving into our 26th year we would have it no other way. There’s creative freedom in this band that doesn’t exist in most bands. You might not see the forest for the trees while you’re inside but when you leave the band and work with some other people you definitely get a glimpse of what it might be out there without the Yellowjackets as kind of a home base. That’s why I’ve always treasured being in this group. I’ve had many opportunities to move on and do other things and I do get quite a bit of opportunity to work with other artists.  I managed to juggle things around so I could be a permanent contributing member of the Yellowjackets and also experience other things. I have to say I’m lucky that I was able to figure that out while some guys have had to break the string and move on to other things.

SV: Over the years I’ve talked to a lot of people who are in bands or do sessions, and most times there is a certain amount of the auteur thing going on where one person does most of the composition and arrangement, and there may be some collaboration, but it’s around that one person’s central ideas.
JH: With the Yellowjackets we collaborate entirely. It’s a full time collaboration.

SV:  On the video somebody talked about leaving your ego at the door, but when you bring in a piece of music you’ve been working on and present it to the group how do you keep that dynamic without killing each other?
JH: (Laughs) It’s easy. I can speak for myself on this - I write quite a bit of material and I just never look at it that way. I like the things that I write but I don’t put them into the precious side of things. I realize that I’m dealing with three other personalities and they may not hear what I’m hearing at that moment when I introduce a piece of music. If they don’t like it I’m not going to be upset about that. It’s not a personal attack. We’re searching for a body of music and all four of us have to enjoy that music in order to give it 100%, so if somebody’s not hearing it there’s no  reason to push it on anyone. Although I have done that on a couple of occasions where I felt really strongly that the piece of music fit the direction of the recording we were working on and I also felt that it had some kind of quality to it that we would all enjoy performing it.

One example is when I had a song that Russell didn’t care for but he saw that I truly liked the piece,. It wasn’t an ego thing. I just truly thought this piece had some cool magical kind of vibe to  it. He gave it a chance. We decided to record it and see what happens. It made it onto the recording list. So we recorded this piece and Russell still didn’t like it. I said can we finish it and just have a mix of it and he said “fine.” Then I ended up getting the flu or something so I had to stay home while Russell went into the studio to check on the mixes . Then he calls me at home, and he goes “Hey, I really like that song. Something happened in the mix and now I really like it.” It ended up on the Dreamland album.

SV: Which song was it?
JH: It was a song called “The Chosen.” 

SV: I love that song. That’s one of my all time favorites from you guys.
JH:  I basically wrote that song and I hadn’t finished it and Ruseell and I really love writing together so I sat down with him and we finished it together and he just wasn’t convinced. And it actually ended up being the first song on the record.

SV: The two of you have been working together since even before this band was formed. What kind of a gift is that to have a musical partner that you can work with on an ongoing basis for that long?
JH: It’s a total gift. It’s something that I never would have expected. I met Russ in 1978 at this little house outside of LA where we got together to rehearse with Robben Ford. From that very first meeting I felt comfortable with him. Musically we had a lot in common and the way we heard things was very similar. We were born 18 days apart so he's kind of a cosmic brother (laughs). There was definitely a connection, thats obvious since we’ve been working together for so long and that creative spark just never goes away. We get together all the time. We work on outside projects, we work on Yellowjackets, I can’t think of any time when we’ve gotten together and it wasn’t a really positive experience. It’s been creative, motivating and interesting, it’s just a total gift that I will never take for granted.

SV: It’s interesting that you both work at such a level of complexity and yet it sounds so comfortable and flows so well that the musicality and the way the songs come together is what you notice more than how much is really going on.
JH: That’s been an interesting element because we both hear complex type things but I’m more of a street guy. I’m self taught and he took lessons and studied. Piano is a thing that you have to study. Bass is something that you can pick up and thump on it and you’re a bass player. (laughs)

SV: I’ve heard the CDs and seen you play and I’d say you go a little bit beyond thumping!
JH: Well that’s how I look at it. Also I’m self taught.  I studied some music in high school so I have that, I guess, as some sort of education but what I’m doing today is stuff I just kind of picked up in my travels. Then getting together with Russell who is much more articulate and studied, we come from very different backgrounds and it creates this spark in both of us. He loves what I do because it’s so different from what he does and I love what he does which is way different from what I do. We find a lot of things together and enjoy putting together the pieces of the puzzle.

SV: Then you get another piece to the puzzle like Bob Mintzer who does things that are entirely different from what either of you do and it meshes. It could collide but instead it meshes.
JH: Then we’ve got something else, so it’s a very interesting equation and we’re very happy to have it.

SV: Another interesting thing about this band is that when contemporary jazz took such a U-turn to fit the relaxation format most of the musicians accommodated and delivered at lest some formula music. The Yellowjackets haven’t done that. When most artists were reining themselves in you actually got more adventurous and you haven’t just survived, you’ve thrived. Was that your creative imperative that you couldn’t do it or did you know that your audience wanted the Yellowjackets to make Yellowjackets music, or both?
JH: I think it was more about the creative imperative - that everybody’s going over there so why don’t we just stay over here and even go further over here. We felt compelled to do what was in our hearts and what was in hour hearts was not what smooth jazz was asking for. Of course we got slapped on the hands for that. Smooth jazz radio does not embrace our recordings and they haven't for a long time.

SV: Now they don’t even play new music that does fit so in retrospect you made the best choice and your hand is now un-slapped.
JH: When we realized airplay wasn’t going to happen we were even more inspired to go in the opposite direction and continue this.  I’m a huge fan of Weather Report and my teacher was Jaco.  So I can’t go that way. It’s not in my makeup. My background is directed to experiment and create something that’s not mainstream.

SV: I think that in the process of not creating something mainstream, there is so much musicality and melody in your music that it ends up being really listenable, and that makes it accessible. That’s something that the Yellowjackets and Pat Metheny Group have been able to pull off. Not many others have been willing to go for it and it takes a solid foundation.
JH: We truly feel that if it’s something that we passionately believe in then that will prevail on whatever level. For us it’s been good. We’re still standing.

SV: Looking over comments that you and Russell have made about the music, one ongoing thread is that you seek out people to work with who will stretch you and take you in different directions artistically.
JH: That’s it. We’re constantly in a mode to stretch and see where it’s going to take us. What I strive for is getting together with some people that you might not normally see working together who have some interesting creative mode that is going to push you into a whole other place that will hopefully create something that is completely unexpected and unique. Sometimes it might not work. We’ll try something and it might not turn into exactly what we were looking for and in that sense we’ll be disappointed, but at least the bottom line is that we tried.

SV: How did you cross paths with Jaco Pastorious?
JH: I met him in 1975 when I was in a band that was getting set up to do an album for Columbia records with Maurice White producing. They put us in this rehearsal hall that actually belonged to Frank Zappa, and I was blown away because there were two rooms and the band that was practicing in the other room was Weather Report. They were rehearsing to go out on tour. It was a private facility so I was actually allowed to go into the other room to check them out. When I walked in they hadn’t started and all I saw was this guy with long hair  fiddling around on a keyboard and this guy that I sort of recognized as Alex Acuna on a drum set, then Joe (Zawinul) and Wayne Shorter came in. They started the rehearsal and the guy with the long hair comes out from behind the keyboard and picks up a Fender bass. They started playing a song and my jaw just fell on the floor! I’d never heard anything like that and it was Jaco. He’d just joined the band. I just had to meet him so I went back to our room for our rehearsal then I stayed around like a little puppy dog just waiting for this guy to come out. Sure enough he comes walking out and I introduced myself and I asked if he taught and if I could take some lessons. He said “sure, come on” and we went and had a burrito and hung out. While we were eating, he stuck these headphones on my head.  He goes, “This is from my first record, we just finished mastering it,” and he plays me “Donna Lee.”  I’m just stunned. We hung out for about 10 days, I had just moved to LA and I was staying at a friend’s house about three blocks from Jaco’s hotel so I was just hanging out with Jaco till 6 or 7 in the morning practicing and listening to music and talking about everything.

SV: People are going to read that and just go “can you imagine...?” Talk about wanting to be the proverbial fly on the wall.
JH: It was quite the rocket shooting experience. I felt like I’d been shot out of a cannon. It was so inspiring and interesting and incredible. I’ll never forget it. Then Weather Report goes on the road and during the next few weeks we realize it’s going to take a longer time to get the record together so I hear about an audition for George Duke. I go and its like this cattle call and there are 19 bass players standing in the hall. When the audition’s over they call me in and tell me they thought I was the best guy but they had kind of promised the gig to a guy who was flying in. He did end up taking the gig and George Duke called me and told me he knew of another gig and gave me a number to call. I call it and it’s Flora Purim. I drive over to her house and I play with her and this drummer I’ve never met before named Ricky Lawson. We both get the gig and I go on the road with Flora Purim and Airto. So I go out on the road with her and sure enough, we end up doing a bunch of dates with Weather Report. So there’s Jaco again. So we ended up hanging out on the road. It was an incredible year and I studied with Jaco on and off through that whole year and it changed my life. That’s all I can tell you.

SV: You guys were really ahead of the curve with what you did with Mint Jam. You had left Warner Brothers and you recorded it on your own then sold it on your website. That was still a really new thing, how did it happen?
JH: After we left Warner's we just felt like we didn’t want to sign another record deal, so we started putting together an idea for a project we were going to do on our own. We were determined to do it with or without financing from an outside source. We did this concert and organized the recording, we did a filming of it too and we’re going to try to get that out this year So we put that together and everyone said we were crazy to finance it and try to put it out, plus it was a double record. It’s turned out to be one of our best selling records, and it was the first one we saw royalties on.

SV: Now a lot of artists are doing it that way but your band signed with Heads Up. What made you decide to go to a label again?
JH: We went to a label in order to get more worldwide exposure. It’s not a normal deal. It’s a licensing and distribution deal where we are in a partnership with the record company and we can take advantage of their distribution and promotional resources. What happened when we put the record on the internet is that we were reaching our fans but you couldn’t find it in retail so it limited the exposure of the release.. By using the label’s distribution and marketing it put us in release in 75 countries. We sold about 30,000 copies on our own but when we hooked up with Heads Up we sold another 70,000. We had to split the revenues but it was worth it to get the CD out there and it opened the door for us to tour in all these places. It’s kept our touring schedule alive and given us the resources to reach a lot of people. That’s where it’s been since we put out Mint Jam. We’ve done the same thing with the follow up to that which was Time Squared, then we did the Christmas record, then we did Altered State and we put out 25, with the DVD and live CD. Now we’re motivated and we’re getting ready to do a new studio album. We’re planning to start recording in the fall.