May 2005
Interviewed by Mary Bentley

With 15 CD's and over 25 years in the music business, Hiroshima continues to make their mark with their unique musical mix. Smoothviews had the opportunity to talk with founding members Dan Kuramoto and June Kuramoto about the group's longevity, the new CD, and their one of a kind sound.

SmoothViews (SV): Tell me about the event at the Hirschhorn [Smithsonian Institution's Hirschhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden].
Dan Kuramoto (DK): It's interesting because they seem to be doing several things. It's sort of like an art opening, but it also is a kickoff to Asian American Heritage Month. It is also somehow tied to our own personal history because before we perform, they're going to show this film that has run on PBS called Cruising J-Town. It was shot at the end of 1974. [It was] the very first time that we all played together. June and I were in the pit band. It was a really nice piece. They had it in a 2,000-seat hall. It was completely sold out. He never did the show again. We kind of liked what we had there with the band. It was the first time we ever tried taiko.
June Kuramoto (JK): Three taikos.
DK: And then we had steel drums and congas and the whole mix. The producer let me put together any kind of orchestra that we were fond of. It was the most world music orchestra probably of all time, ever. As June pointed out, we were playing world music way before there was a category, but we didn't know what it was.
JK: [We were only playing] our music. It's the only music we knew.

SV: I think that's part of the problem. Everybody tries to categorize everything and fit it into this nice little box, but it doesn't always work.
DK: Yeah, well we never fit. We've spent our entire career way outside the radar. We're like a stealth kind of thing. Our first label, Arista… they actually were betting that we wouldn't sell 25,000 units when Larkin Arnold signed us to the label and put us out there. We were kind of a joke because they said, being Asian no one's going to care about us. And Asians don't listen to music, so other Asians wouldn't buy our product. So no one would ever buy it. That was kind of our start. But we had sold about 150,000 units in the first three months. After that we got respect, but it was due to Larkin Arnold.

He was Executive Producer for Thriller. They came to him and said, “Hey, we're going to shelf this record because it's a loser.” And Larkin said, “Okay. I'll be responsible for the success or failure of this record. I'll take it over.” What did [Michael Jackson] make? Thirty-million and counting or whatever? And literally, it's the rest is history sort of thing. He was the one who signed Natalie Cole and Frankie Beverly & Maze. He was the one who signed Caldera, the most ground-breaking Latin fusion band ever. Larkin was the guy. He was a visionary. He thought that if we could get all people involved in music we would have a greater understanding of all races. It's just common sense. You open the entire marketplace up. Larkin was a brilliant black attorney from DC. He went to Howard. He was maybe too smart for the business in a way. At a certain point he didn't have to put up with the industry anymore.

SV: Is that how you ended up playing the Howard University gig? Through him, way back when?
DK: I don't know if that was a direct cause-and-effect, but everybody knew Larkin there. [That was] the single most memorable moment in our career, at least for me personally. We had never played on the east coast before. We went to Howard, and we couldn't understand why there were going to be two shows. That's a 1,500-seat hall. Freddy Jackson was in town and all this other stuff. We thought this was insanity! Who would come? We couldn't believe when we got there and found both shows sold out. But HUR [WHUR – Howard University Radio] was playing us to death at that time. It was like shock therapy for us. June started playing a solo, and it was completely quiet. We thought, “Oh my God! They hate us!” Then she finishes her solo, and she gets a standing ovation for two minutes. I'm not talking a long time. I'm talking about two minutes.
JK: They were clapping through the solo, and I didn't know what to do – whether to stop or what was I supposed to do.
DK: I mean they clapped through the end of the song. That's how I know it was two minutes. Two minutes is literally a conservative number. Obviously there were a large percentage of African Americans there, but they had about 10% non-African American, which they said, at that time was the largest non-African American audience they'd ever seen there before. It was just extraordinary. It was that whole thing. We're all connected. We're all the same. It was a catharsis - just an amazing experience; a connection of peoples uniting in a way. Heretofore, everything was a stereotype. Everything was a racist perception, and in one evening, it changed. I'm not exaggerating. It was pretty much like that.

SV: I should congratulate you on 25 years in the business. That's a milestone considering how this business is. To be in this business for 25 years and still survive intact. I mean, you didn't just survive, you excelled. Why do you think that is?
DK: Thank you. Well, Larkin again. He said the reason he signed the group was that we were unique. He said, “If you aren't unique and you aren't good, then I don't have any time for you.” But he said we are unique, and we are good, and we have good ideas. He said, “You're going to go this alone.” He was very, very clear. He could only help us so far. Either we were going to be able to endure this because that's what it's going to be like or we're not going to make it. So we have to be clear about what's in front of us and face it for what it is. Always sound advice. Again, I just can't say enough about Larkin. He really spelled it out with no frills, what it was going to be like, and he was right. It's always been a struggle.
JK: And not only that. As well as Larkin we had a lot of people around us who constantly supported us, like Richard Rosenberg, who told us to stay unique, be different, it's okay. And [they] encouraged us. And then there were the James Moody's, and the Don Cherry's…
DK: … and Bobby Bradford, and Harold Lance, Pharaoh Saunders.
JK: Sometimes you get discouraged and they go, “You can't give up! You guys don't even know what paying dues is! You owe it to your people. You owe it to yourself. You have to do this.”
DK: Moody said, “How are we going to change this planet if we don't step up? Here you are in this unique position and most of the people on this planet look like you and you're going to let them hold you down? Just like me and Dizzy did and all the restaurants we couldn't go into and all the restaurants we couldn't eat at. It's going to be like that for you. Not the same, but it's going to be like that.” He said, “You have to do this.” He's 80 years old today and sounds better today than ever. We had a lot of mentors. We're real, real blessed. To be frank, were it not for great black jazz musicians, we would have never done anything. They were the ones that really insisted that people hear us. They said, “This is what jazz is. Jazz is a unique musical experience. What she's doing with the koto and things… that's exactly what jazz is. Every note she's playing, that's what jazz is. Don't be caught up in the definition that other people have imposed of what jazz is. It's none of that. It's about the willingness to be inventive and to stand out on your own.” That was what those guys said. They all just continually supported us and helped us get a footing and give us a little confidence to do what we do. Just like today a lot of smooth jazz syndicates say, “No, you sound too ethnic. We can't play you.” And yet, they'll play a song like “One Wish” that we did 20 years ago. [They say,] “It stands out too much in the workday. It conflicts with the smooth image.” We're only saying that to address the fact that it has been a struggle, but it's all been worth it because as our mentors have taught us, that's what we're here for.

SV: Do you think that if you had come along today as a new band with the same sound, that you would have the same type of support?
JK: Gee, you know, I'm not quite sure because on the one hand, everything is so different now with technology. Everything is programmed. Everyone has their own studio, so we're not mingling as much as we used to. I don't know.
DK: To me, the only opportunity out there… and I'm really hoping that it will kick in for a future for music… is going to be things like satellite radio, and I'll say it because it needs to get said, because of massive syndicates like Clear Channel, there's not an opportunity for local markets to evolve and break acts regionally. I remember Rufus and Chaka Khan. They're a little Seattle band. Had not Seattle radio got behind them, well, I don't know. We're friends with a lot of people in that group. I don't know if they would ever even happen. I mean, that was how things broke. And programmers like B.K. Kirkland, who was in San Francisco [and now is] at XM or Russ Davis, who used to be in Atlanta , or Lawrence Tanner in LA, who is now at XM. These people would find these acts. They would spend what they wanted to spend because of their rep, and they would turn people on to things. I don't see any possibility of that happening at all in commercial radio. There's a margin of possibility that it could happen on satellite radio, if that doesn't get completely bought out or taken over. But at this point I'm listening to XM and at least I'm hearing some different things. Clearly, the opportunities are just not there for music in general to explore right now.

SV: You have been doing this for 25 years. What inspires you? What makes you want to get up everyday and continue to do this?
JK: I just love music. I was talking to my friend the other day and it's really incredible. I just hear music in my head all the time. That's the kind of person [I am.] I think I live within my own mind, which is so sad and narrow, huh ? (laughs) But I love music. I love all kinds of music. For me, it's great communication. It conveys a lot of experiences. It's a great voice for me, so I love doing that. And I think it has a lot to do with people like you, our audience, and our fans who support it. It's so important. It makes me keep going and striving.
DK: For me, it's the opportunity to be creative. It's the opportunity to keep the idea of a new mix as a possibility. Our music is always about a mix, it's never about a blend. I have no feeling for wanting to homogenize the American experience. We are, all of us, people of color in this country, and that's what makes America the potential dynamic that it could be. We need to change this puppy in the worst way. As artists, there's a way that we can contribute to that thought process by challenging ourselves. We could write something that's much more esoteric than we do, but we try to bring people with us – to create a journey. We try to do it with every record. Like Obon is all about a journey. It's a journey about the 25 years we've been doing this. It's about a journey of the 14, 15 albums we made, and then it's a journey within each song about paying tribute to a Pharaoh Saunders or a James Moody or an Eddie Harris. Or it's a tribute to love, like June writes a song like “Paris.” People do not connect with the dynamic of life on this planet anymore. In our own small way, that's what we're trying to do and also connect. We're an Asian culture that's been around for 3,000 years. That's part of this society. That's part of the mix of this society, and it connects with jazz, and it connects with R&B, or salsa – the basic roots that we grew up with. All these different kinds of musical styles. ‘Cause those are all different voices. They're all part of the dialogue. That's all the things that we want to connect to. So Obon is really a testament to 25 years. All it is is just a step along the way for us, but it's a very, very important one. And that's why we end the record with June and Kimo's song, “Heritage.” I hope people get that - “Heritage” – because it all begins and ends there. Your art and your soul begin and end there. Every note you play begins and ends there. And everyone's afraid to do messages. We're crazy enough that that's the first thing we talk about at every show we do, every interview we do. Why do we call the band Hiroshima? Okay, now we have something to talk about. There's a reason why we do that.
JK: It always goes back to Dan. I learned from Dan that it's giving the benefit of a doubt to the people. If you don't tell the story, then they will never get it. They won't know the story and so, in a way, it's our obligation and our duty to tell the story. Then it's up to them to do whatever they want with it.
DK: For us, it is the 60 th anniversary of our people being imprisoned. My mom, my dad, my grandfather, my uncles, my aunts, June's as well. June's uncle went and fought in Europe and died for America. His entire family was imprisoned. He was a sharpshooter. His unit was pinned down. He took the ammunition. He saved everyone's life until his last bullet was gone, and he was killed. That kind of courage, and his family was incarcerated. That's why we have to go out and tell the story.

SV: Which is what you do on The Bridge with “Manzanar.”
DK: Because it is the 60th anniversary of that, we're probably going to do a lot on this tour as well just so we can tell that story, because people need to know. This is part of American history. We have to bring this up. That's crucial to art. I think that's really, really important.

SV: It's similar to the role that music played during the apartheid struggle in South Africa. It was such a powerful force.
DK: Oh yeah! When we were in Capetown last year, it was amazing. [We were] standing in Mandela's cell. I mean, I get goose bumps. I still get goose bumps thinking about it. We stood in Mandela's cell and when we looked at Robben Island and the prison he was in, it looked just like the old photos of Manzanar.
JK: The similarities were amazing.
DK: It was eerie. I mean the same machine gun towers and everything.
JK: The desolation.
DK: So people then assume that if you are going to be of a nature for humanity, to speak politics, then how is that like music, or how is that celebration? That's the heart and soul of it. Where did the basis of American music come from? It came from slavery, and people having a need to be lifted up. That's the whole point. It's not a contradiction. It is why music is so powerful, because it lifts the spirit. So people think, “Man, you'll are so heavy all the time.” No, we're motivated, but we can have fun with it. The comment we get most often is that people say we always look like we're having a good time. I think we hear that more than people saying they like us. ( laughs ) Absolutely, we're having a great time. We're always having a great time because it's always a celebration. Like that song, “Pharaoh,” on the new record. We did it because it's fun. It's so loose, and we recorded it so, like, everyone's playing all over the place. That was the kind of stuff that Pharaoh used to do. It's about having a good time. We didn't want it to be tight. Most of the songs on Obon we just did one or two quick takes because we wanted it to be vibrant. We normally don't spend that much time, but this time we didn't have time to spend if we wanted to. We were so far behind.
JK: And we're not capable of doing it tight, but we spend a lot of time trying to make it tight. But this time we left it very natural. The human element.
DK: June was real busy. She was doing the movie, The Last Samurai . They actually held up post-production so June could come and play koto. June hates when I say that, but it was true. Hans Zimmer, the composer wouldn't work with another koto player besides June. And then we got hung up doing a movie –
JK: Only the Brave.
DK: It's a movie about a unit like June's uncle was in that fought in Europe. It's the first feature about that so we really thought that we needed to be a part of it, so we did the score for the movie. That gave us around four weeks to do our record and we had only written about three songs!

SV: It almost has the feel of a live album.
JK: It was.
DK: Yeah, that's pretty much it. A lot of things that are on there, like Kimo… Kimo is such a phenomenal keyboard player… is stuff that he played during the rehearsal that I happened to record, and we just put it on because it was so hip and it was so loose. Everyone knows Kimo from playing with Jarreau or with Frankie Beverly and Maze. Because June is who she is, she is the natural star of our group. She's the one who cleans up everybody's dishes, and if you say anything nice about her, she'll run into the next room. That sets a precedent for the whole band. Because the minute you think you're bad, when one of the world's greatest musicians is up cleaning the table for everybody, making sure that everybody's got something to drink, and you say something nice about her, and she'll run away. That fundamental humility keeps us centered. That's June. That's how she is. To me, that's the spirit of a woman. That's a woman warrior, because a woman warrior – they just get it done. That's how this band has always been. It's been through June's strength that we have survived, period. I may be the leader of the band. I may have some ideas, but June's strength keeps us together. That's flat out it. And her musicianship, of course, is out of this world. Because of that, it can be lost sometimes how bad Kimo is. Just go back and listen to Obon and listen to where Kimo is going with the things he's playing. He's crazy! He's just ridiculous!
JK: He's a monster.
DK: And he's almost as humble as June is. He's kind of a laid back Hawaiian dude. To this day, if I see Frankie, he starts giving me the stink eye! (laughs)

SV: Yes, because you stole his keyboard player! (laughs) Kimo is a very good writer. I've noticed on several CD's that he's done a lot of writing and producing. So, let's talk about the rest of the band for a moment. Tell me about Dean Cortez. He's all over this new CD.
DK: Dean has played on over 300 albums and 200 movies. He did the Boz Scaggs tour when he just graduated from high school. You can go down the list. Who hasn't he played with, huh June?
JK: Where hasn't he been?
DK: He's ridiculous. And our drummer Danny Yamamoto? In high school, he was playing with Billy Childs and Larry Klein. That was the Billy Childs Trio and Danny was 16. We're really blessed with the people that we have. And June calls him Schroeder. He can play anything, read anything.
JK: He's the one who's technically a trained musician. He's a great sight reader.
DK: There were other people that June got to listen to that really inspired her. In fact, one of them was an African American musician, a harpist by the name of Dorothy Ashby, whom we got to meet before she passed away. She was one of the great jazz harpists of all time. She did an album on koto and for someone who didn't really study on the koto, she was bad.
JK: She was incredible because of her time feel and her phrasing. So soulful.
DK: She didn't have the facility, of course, of June, but she was great.

SV: June, you were my first experience hearing a koto. Prior to listening to your music, I didn't know what it was. I mean, I've heard it, but not presented the way that it's presented with Hiroshima.
JK: You heard it at sushi bars and Japanese restaurants. (laughs)

SV: Yeah, pretty much. And your newest member, Shoji?
DK: He's a fourth generation Japanese-American. His parents were hippies. His mother just got appointed to superior court judge in the state of California. He went to Stanford, but he's been playing taiko almost full-time since the age of eight. He's that next generation who not only is not worried about where he is with his culture, he's clear. He's a monster. We call him Youngblood because someone in their 20s in our band… that would be young blood. And Youngblood can blow! I mean, he does Tibetan throat singing. He reads really well. Now he's playing Latin percussion. He's playing Latin percussion with his right hand and then Japanese percussion with his left. It's crazy! Give him five more years and he'll be a walking insane asylum. He's a monster… young talent and a real good kid.

SV: One of my favorite parts of the show is in the middle when everyone else leaves the stage and it's just Danny on the drums and Shoji on the taiko.
JK: It's very creative. There are a lot of taiko players that have developed taiko groups here in the U.S., but he's exceptional because he's very talented and very creative.
DK: Basically, in our band, what we're having him do is just grow. We just want to plant a seed, put some water on him, and basically give him guidance, but we let him learn. If he's going to make mistakes, it's all good. It's like James Moody always told me, “Any note you play is only a half step away from being right. But every time you play just the right note, you can't possibly be doing it right. That's already been done. If you land on the wrong note, that's where it begins. There is no wrong note. You just started in a whole new direction.” With Shoji, we're encouraging him to just try stuff. He's been playing with us for about a year now. It's been a lot of fun. And he does kick our butts, because he's got so much energy and he's great.

SV: I want to talk a little bit more about the new CD. You went all instrumental on this one, totally instrumental for the first time. What made you decide to do that?
DK: Well, part of was because Terry Steele wanted to try the solo thing one more time. He's family to us and we just said, “You know what? Then do it. Don't walk the fence. Just go ahead and do it.” And he's trying to get into writing a book. We just encouraged him to go ahead and do it. We were going to start the process of interviewing other vocalists. We've had, how many, five or six already, and we just thought – well, actually June said, “Why don't we just do an instrumental record? We generally only have about t hree vocals on any given CD anyway, and why don't we just do an instrumental record?” It was kind of like, duh! Okay! (laughs) And it was really fun because we approached it differently. We had no time to do it, and we had a lot of fun as we did it, with no time. It actually went pretty fast.
JK: I think because it's just the survival mode. Everything had to be instinctual.
DK: One Thursday morning as June got up, she started writing some songs. So literally, that was it, “One Thursday Morning.” That's it. And she wrote a beautiful song. No time was spent. It was like, here it is.

SV: The third song is , “Kototsu-Han (San Kyoku).” In your notes, you explain that it's an ancient Japanese trio form. It seems like you made it more contemporary by adding the rhythm section to it – the bass and the drums with it. Is that correct?
DK: June taught me about what is the most traditional trio form. That would be the koto, shakuhachi, and –
JK: In Japan, it would be koto, shakuhachi, and shamisen.
DK: Shamisen. June plays koto and shamisen. A shamisen sort of looks like a banjo. I sometimes play shakuhachi, the bamboo flute. But, typical of Hiroshima, and like in the notes, I also mention that sometimes you can do stuff here that you can't do over there. In Japan, that's crossing traditions. We do it all the time. It's never done there with koto and taiko playing together. In this case, this is a koto and a tutsumi, a pitched hand drum, much like an African talking drum. In fact, that's where it came from. The theory is that the taiko came from Africa, but we're going to get into a whole long music history thing. So, the tutsumi is like the talking drum – the exact same concept with the ropes and the pitching of it. A guy that we grew up with, Kenny Endo, was living in southern California with us, and, in fact, played in the band for a little while as a trap drummer. He went to Japan and spent years and years and became the first taiko master outside of Japan. He was actually one of Shoji's teachers. I just had the idea of combining the tutsumi with the koto, again, something that hasn't been done, with our friend, Karen Han. She's Chinese and plays the er-hu, which is sort of like a violin. Now, Chinese instruments and Japanese instruments would never happen together in Asia. They need to fix their business over there. But we're here, so we are in a unique position of beginning the process of redefining that. As Americans, we can do that here. So we love to mess with that in this particular way. And [in] this particular song, that's what we do. I thought I could write a little hypnotic groove and let these three really amazing world-class classical musicians interact in their own way. That's all it was. I just tried to create a format. And June, being as gracious as she is, helped Kenny and Karen feel comfortable. June can play people into their space without violating their space. It's kind of exotic, but we feel [it's a] really wonderful experiment in music.

SV: It's a great song. It's one of my favorites on this CD.
JK: Yeah. He did a wonderful job.
DK: But you have to hear it live. Hopefully we can go to the east coast and bring Karen with us sometime. She's extraordinary. She came to America from China to play on The Last Emperor, and she just ended up staying.

SV: Another one I particularly like is “Obon Two-Five.” I can't wait to hear that one performed live!
DK: Yeah, well, if we get it together, huh June? (laughs)
JK: That's the other thing… trying to memorize these songs. Oh my gosh! It gets harder and harder. (laughs)

SV: What's the first single from the CD?
DK: I guess they're looking at “Swiss Ming,” although most radio people think we should go with “China Latina.” But to us, that's up to the label. I don't even understand where radio is coming from these days. I don't even want to think about it anymore. It's not like what it once was. From our point of view, we try to make honest music. We try to reach out to people with our ideas and literally hope for the best. Going back to the original premise – the main thing is to make the commitment and stick to it; to write the best music that we can and that's what we try to do.

SV: It probably would have been easier if you had changed to fit whatever the format demanded at the time. It would have been easier to do that, but you didn't. You stuck to your guns. This is what you do, and you still succeeded.
DK: Well, thank you. But at the end of the day, it wouldn't have been easier, because you know what? You have to live with yourself. If you make a commitment to do something, then you just have to stay with it. Again, as I say with June as our example... she has always been as soulful and as honorable and as committed as she has… for the rest of us, it's been kind of simple. That bar is set. Yeah, but you're right. If we wanted more commercial success, there were avenues for us to take that we could've taken that would have allowed that. But we've been blessed. We sold almost four million records anyway. We've had several gold records and awards and whatever. All of that is about what's happening tomorrow. That's what we're excited about. We're excited about these upcoming dates and about reaching out to folks.

SV: Well, that takes care of my questions and then some. I really appreciate this. I've been a fan of your music since… well, I haven't been with you since '79 (laughs), but I've been with you for a few years now.
DK: And thank you. Thank you for keeping music alive.

SV: Thank you for making the music.

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