October 2006
Interviewed by Shannon West

In the early 90s when Boney James’ debut CD, Trust, was released on a small label it created such a buzz among radio programmers, writers, and fans that it went to the top of the charts, surprising even Boney and producer Paul Brown. Since then Boney has released a series of CDs that have both defined and influenced the evolution of the genre, and delivered a series of hits that never defaulted to formula. The first single from Shine, “The Total Experience,” has moved rapidly up the Smooth Jazz radio chart, an amazing feat for an original instrumental that has both energy and substance. When an artist is as successful as he has been criticism related to commercial success is inevitable but all you have to do is listen to the music, see him live, or talk to him and it becomes very clear that he is following his own vision and creating the music he loves to play. The fact that this music intersects with what fans want to hear is serendipity, because as he follows his musical vision, appreciative fans reap the benefits and he can lead them into even more interesting places as he continues to grow and explore his own artistry.
He’s on a new label, Concord, and produced Shine himself, working mostly in his home studio.
I talked to him right after Shine not only debuted at the top of Billboard’s contemporary Jazz chart but also broke into the top 50 on the Top 200 chart, which is a rarity for an instrumental oriented album.

SV: Around the time “Pure” came out you made a comment that I’d love to get you to elaborate on. You said you liked to work with other producers because you felt like you had too many ideas and working with other producers kept you from becoming undisciplined but when you started producing yourself it let you explore your crazier ideas and that turned out to be a deeper reflection of  your musical sensibility. On this CD you have explored a lot of ideas and stretched out.
BJ: I like the whole idea of busting genres. Why be restricted by what people expect or some narrow corridor you have to exist in. I love lots of different kinds of music and I like to try my hands at making different kinds of music. I feel like I have been successful in just doing different kinds of things at a very high level on this record.

SV: A lot of us grew up listening to lots of different kinds of music because even top 40 radio used to play a lot of different types of songs, so we were exposed to more genres than we are now.
BJ: Maybe listening to this one is like listening to a radio station back then, where you could hear different kinds of music on the same station and it existed harmoniously. That’s sort of what I am trying to do.

SV: You’ve  kind of gone back to expanding the focus beyond the R&B smooth jazz groove, for example your arrangement of "Waters of March," the Jobim song.
BJ: It was the mood I was in. I think the record has a real buoyancy to it, it's a real happy sound and that probably has something to do with getting to a certain part of my life. Each record reflects something about where you are in your head at the time and this record is up and freewheeling and fun. It’s got its moments of introspection and the seductive quality, but it's got some real young, happy sounding stuff.

SV: So that’s a reflection of where you are now artistically and personally?
BJ: I try not to ponder it too much. I just sort of accept it that this is the way it is. It's a good thing but it's sort of mysterious as to why they all turn out the way they do. I just notice it afterwards.

SV: It's funny when your debut album crossed our desks as radio people it was without any hype. Back then you could be intuitive about knowing what was going to excite the audience and it was obvious that there was something very special and something lasting in the works there. I want to go back to Trust because it was a one of those milestone albums. Paul Brown was not a big name producer yet and you were a totally new artist. I heard that Paul was actually creating some of those tracks for a future Sam Riney album when you came into the picture.
BJ: I think he had the tracks ready but I came in and wrote those melodies. "Road Runner," "Lily," and "Personal Touch," those were all my songs that I brought into that project. They were on my demo before I met Paul. Songs like "It's A Beautiful Thing," "Metropolis," and "Kyoto" were tracks that he had and I came in and wrote the melodies on top of them so that's how it went down. I know he was going to make a record with Sam Riney and that didn't happen so I was able to slide in there but there was a whole process of writing the songs.

SV: When the two of you were working on that CD did you have any idea of what this would become as far as collaboration and the influence that sound would have?
BJ: Oh no, not at all. I was just really shocked that I was actually making the record because I had been trying to get a record deal for a number of years with no luck and the next thing I know I'm in the studio making the record. Then a few months after that I was hearing it on the radio so it was a whirlwind at the time and I was kinda floored by the fact that it happened. Of course there were a number of years after that where I was still having to support myself by working for other people as a sideman, but soon after that I got onto Warner Brothers and my life really changed. So in the beginning I had no expectations at all.

SV: Even if it didn't generate a lot of revenue or there were label issues it was a really significant release in terms of its influence on contemporary jazz songwriting and production.
BJ: You can say that in retrospect but at the time I was just trying to make ends meet and hoping for the best. Even now with my 10th record and with the success I've had, I never have any tremendous certainty that things are going to go my way. That's probably just part of my personality or being a realist in the music business. Nothing's ever certain so I just try and do the work and let what happens happen.

SV: So even with this CD which has so many bright moments and a song that climbed the charts really fast you didn't feel a certain amount of assurance
BJ: I knew I loved it and that's really all I can know. I felt like it was great when I was done with it and that I accomplished what I wanted in terms of making the music, but how it does in the marketplace and how people respond to it is something I'm never sure of. I'm often surprised by it, both positive and negative reactions.

SV: Have you gotten negative reactions?
BJ: Well there are always going to be people who will quibble about one thing or another. I've never been a real media darling (laughs)

SV: Really? I guess most of the media I have on you is from people like me who are into this music and are pretty supportive.
BJ: There are always people who are waiting to tear you down but I you can't focus on that. I focus on trying to make a record that I love because that's the only thing that I can do and I feel like I succeeded on that level. As far as the idea of it being a huge smash and whether people are going to love it, I try to stay away from thinking about that. I want people to like it; I'm not making a record in a vacuum. And now I've got a new record company that is really committed to marketing the record in a unique way and that seems to be going well

SV: What are they doing?
BJ: They're committed to it, they aren't just taking a "put it out and see what happens" attitude. They've committed to TV advertising, they're pumping it at retail and the commitment and money they are spending to get the word out is really impressive.

SV: Concord has so much credibility and history with straightahead jazz and now they seem to be positioning themselves as the next really influential label in smooth and contemporary too. They seem to be jumping into gap that Warner Bros. and GRP have left.
BJ: Well hopefully I can help.

SV: When Warner Bros. closed their jazz department you and Norman Brown were the two artists who stayed on the roster. You put out an excellent album that did well on the charts but you moved to Concord. Why?
BJ: When Warner Bros fired a lot of people, not just in the jazz department but the whole company was essentially gutted at a certain point, it was indicated that that might be a good thing for us since we were still there people would be dedicated to working us. It didn't turn out that way. The whole process of trying to promote the last record without the people that I had known and worked with for a long time who loved my music and were really dedicated to trying to sell it just didn’t work out. I could have made another record for them after Pure but I started to feel like I needed to be some place where the label was willing to put the time and money into promoting my music. That’s why I chose to look for a new home.

SV: A lot of artists have been starting their own labels. Why did you decide to go with an established company instead of going out on your own?
BJ: I thought it was the best thing for me. I wanted to be at a label that had the financial muscle and marketing expertise that I don't possess. I'm looking to really hit one out of the park. It goes beyond saying that I own it so if I sell 20,000 CDs I get all the money. I want to have a platinum record and I think you can only do that with financial resources and the marketing savvy from people who have been around a long time. You have to be entrepreneurial to start a label and that's not my focus. Going to Concord is what felt right to me
.
SV: You did decide to get deeper into producing your own records.
BJ: Which is more about the music for me. It's having that immediate hands-on control of everything that goes on the record. That's what I love. The making of the record!

SV: When did you decide you wanted to get into production?
BJ: It sort of happened around the time I started co-producing, around the time of the Christmas record. I just got more involved in it. With Paul and I it was a real collaboration and I learned more and more about the process of making records. Then at a certain point I felt like I pretty much knew how I want the record to sound and I knew how to do it so why not just go for it. I love the records I made with Paul but you have to evolve and that's what happened.

SV: Paul is brilliant in the way he uses sound. Was the way he works in the studio and puts tracks together an influence on you?
BJ: It's really hard to separate me from what Paul did, at least on the records we did together. I think the records Paul has done with other artists sound a lot different from the ones he did with me. In a way that's part of what I wanted to explore. What part of the records that I made with Paul was really me and what was him? What would a record sound like that I made by myself? I think this record is pretty much it. I certainly learned a lot about the craft of making records but in terms of arrangement and that layered sound that's something that I've always gravitated toward.

SV: How do you feel about your evolution as a producer and how that affects you as a musician?
 BJ: It's just like anything. Hopefully, if you apply yourself then the more you do it the better you get.  I'm just trying to grow and to make better records or at least more fully realized records. The concept of what's good and bad is completely subjective. To me if you keep doing it each one will continue to evolve and grow in a way that can't be predicted until you hear the music. As far as the actual ideas, it's pretty mysterious where they come from and why they sound the way they do.

SV: Musicians keep having to answer questions about the creative process from people like me who are going to try to put it into words so people can read about it and it's basically something that is so intuitive and hard to pin down. So continuing on those lines (laughs) when you are writing and arranging a song does it just come to you.
BJ: Yes. It's these gut feelings and instincts that come to you. You imagine things and wonder what they would sound like then actually try to make it happen. There's a lot of discipline and sweat involved but the actual germ of an idea for anything just kind of comes.

SV: You play alto tenor and soprano and keyboards and on Shine you play in so many different tones and ranges and levels of emotion even within one song. How do you know what is going to sound best in a given situation. Like at the end of "Total Experience" where there is that beautiful fade then it comes back into this really energized intense sound. There a lot of nuances like that all over this record. How does what is going to go where and what is going to sound best come to you
BJ: When it comes to the playing, what I am trying to do when I produce the CD is create this canvas that is going to inspire me to just play over it. Then when you're performing the actual sax track there's no thought process at all. It's completely coming from the gut or the heart or whatever you want to call it...the soul. It's just responding to the music and letting things happen. Of course you practice and you have the mastery of the instrument to fall back on, but that's just to get the technical side of the saxophone out of the way so it becomes a matter of just responding to the music rather than an intellectual process. That, to me, is what makes real honest music. I'm not thinking about anything, that's when it happens. I don't think of playing soft in one place or loud in another, it just becomes reality and that's how it is. Of course then I have to go out into the control room as a producer and say "I think I could do that better" or "this isn't right" but hopefully I will hear it and go "wow!"

SV: On "Hypnotic" you got to work with George Benson.
BJ: That was an honor and a thrill! A tremendous moment for me. I’ve been a big George Benson ever since I was a kid. That’s one of the guys where I I’m amazed that I know this guy just to talk to him.The fact that he actually plays on the record is a real thrill for me.

SV: How did you get him to play on it?
BJ: I just reached out to his management and sent him a copy of the track. I think it was easier since he's also on Concord. I just had my fingers crossed that he would hear what I heard, which was that this track sounded like such a vintage George Benson track and it would be perfect for him. It was a real fun day.

SV: Was he  in the studio with you?
BJ: He did an overdub. After everything was done I flew to Phoenix where he lives and we recorded there.

SV: It seemed like you did bring out that really identifiable sound he has that nobody can duplicate. The essence of what he does is right there in this really tight solo.
BJ: I'm really happy about the way it came out. The thing about George is that he's never lost that. When you see him live he's so incredible. I think it was a good marriage of music and artist, and he felt free enough to let himself shine through. I didn't tell him what to do, he just played and this is what came out.

SV: And you did "Total Experience" with George Duke, how did that come about?
BJ: I've known him for a number of years. We've hung out at some jazz festivals and I think there's always been this mutual respect. He produced an Eric Benet track that I played on once up at his house and did a collaboration for Warner Bros. I just called him up and asked him if he would do it, he said yes and boom, it was done. It was a pretty easy one.

SV: We seem to be having a resurgence of the Fender Rhodes. Patrice Rushen did some brilliant work on the Lee Ritenour CD and it's on this song, which is the one that is getting airplay right now.
BJ: It was a case of finding the right sound for the song and that song has a retro flavor, kind of a Crusaders-ish seventies feel to it so it seemed like the right fit.

SV: I have to go back to another seventies classic too. On "Breathe" there are places where the sax and keyboard remind me of John Klemmer and Dave Grusin on Klemmer's Touch album.
BJ: That's a compliment. I love that record.

SV: You've brought in some threads that go back to when contemporary jazz started to come into its own but in the sense of making them sound current more than being retro or tribute driven. "Way She Walks" has the feel of the early Spyro Gyra hits from back then too.
BJ: I think all those influences are rolling around in my head somewhere so they poke out every now and then in the music that I'm making.

SV: That's another one that stepped away from the R&B identity.
BJ: I don't think I was really trying to make R&B records. I think it's just how they came out sounding.

SV: It may just be that that's just how press releases and reviewers categorized it because it was a marketable word.
BJ: Even all those records that people said were R&B had more eclectic music on them. There was some Calypso, some Latin things. This one does feel a little more varied than the last couple of records. It just happened that way and I’m glad it did because it makes it fun to listen to.

SV: Tell me about "Soft." It's such a goosebump raising performance.
BJ: It's not so tough when you have a great song like that. It's always been one of my favorite songs. It was originally recorded by Chuck Mangione on Chase The Clouds Away and I always have loved it. It was on my early list of songs to mess around with and try and make it work and it did turn out to be a great track. I think it's a perfect end to the record. Ann Nesby just blew me away.

SV: How did you come to getting her to do it?
BJ: She's known more as a Gospel singer and she can really belt but I thought taking a voice like that and haveving it do something really understated would be beautiful, and it did turn out beautifully.

SV: You've been using more vocals on your recent CDs and while most artists seem to go for more familiar established names you've been using a lot of up and coming singers. How do you find them?
BJ: Different ways. I heard Dwele on the radio and I just loved his voice right away. This is actually the third time we've worked together because he did a track on Pure then he had me guest on his last record and now he's on "In The Rain" on this one. Esthero was on Warner Brothers and my agent represents her. He sent me a copy of her stuff and I thought she had a great voice so when I was working on the "Shine" track the idea popped in my head to use her. I do have some real heavy hitters like Phillip Bailey and Faith Evans too.

SV: Which is a really nice balance. Debbie Nova was great on the last record too.
BJ: People play you stuff and I just kind of file them away as ideas, that they might be good ones to work with someday.

SV: Why did you start adding more vocals over the last few albums?
BJ: It's a matter of coming up with what I love on a given song. Sometimes I even start writing a song as an instrumental and then it doesn't sound right to me as an instrumental. I feel like maybe it was meant to be a vocal and I start working in that direction. If I write a song and I love it I'm going to want to put it on the record regardless of whether it’s completely saxophone or not. I kind of stopped worrying about that at some point. I look at someone like Quincy Jones who is a great artist who sometimes might not even play on the records he makes, He brings in all these other brilliant singers and instrumentalists. I’m not going to go all the way there, but to me thinking of that gave me permission to make a record that has tracks that I produced, arranged, or wrote that still feel like me even though there is a vocalist.

SV: You have had so many big hits in the Smooth Jazz genre. Do you find any pressure to recreate rather than evolve?
BJ: Definitely not! I'm just trying to make the music for me, at least in the creative part. What happens after that is up to forces beyond my control, so for me it's all about growth and evolution. If I've done something that sounds a lot like something else I might not want to put it out because it doesn't feel fresh. I'm looking more for fresh. I think if you try and recreate something that's death for an artist. I want to grow. I don't want to die.