November 11, 2004
Interview by Elizabeth Ware

SmoothViews (SV): Welcome to SmoothViews!
Ken Navarro (KN): Thanks, and congratulations on the new site!

SV: You are currently working on your sixteenth solo project, Love Coloured Soul. Tell us about the project… musicians playing on it, etc.
KN: I’ve been working on it on and off for most of the year… the last couple of months have been real intense (laughs)… getting more intense by the day! Literally, today is the day I actually send it off to the manufacturer. So, I’m just giving a final listen to the final CD this morning before I call FedEx to come and get it. It’s an album that started off… I started thinking about what I wanted to do this past winter when I rediscovered an old John Klemmer, saxophonist, record that I got back in the early ‘70’s when I was at music school in Wisconsin.

I rediscovered the record and it just struck me – it was such a warm, positive kind of a feeling. It really made me want to make a CD that kept that kind of a mood throughout and captured some of that same energy, but at the same time had like a healing feeling to it. So I started writing things specifically around that goal. And then ended up co-writing a couple of things – one with long time pianist who’s worked with me, Jay Rowe, and another with a friend who’s also in the Smooth Jazz radio business. He’s a DJ, in fact, at WJZW here in the DC area, named Jay Lang. And then I also did a couple of cover tunes which is unusual for me, but they just really worked well for me. One was my favorite song from that particular John Klemmer record, a song called “Glass Dolphins.” And another was… I’ve recently been rediscovering Laura Nyro big time… a version of her song “Stoned Soul Picnic” which just works really well on the nylon-string guitar.

So it’s a mixture of those things, and as usual, I used all live players and approached it… in fact with this record, more so than ever… I wanted to keep a real natural, human quality to it. Even though the modern recording technology allows you to tweak and fix and rearrange to your heart’s content, I really made a lot of effort to put that kind of energy into making the music as good as it could be and the sonics – the overall way the album sounds – as beautiful as it could be, as opposed to trying to fix every little human quality until it’s like a machine. It’s been a balance to keep all these different values that I want to bring to this project, to keep them there, but I feel like I’ve been successful at it.


SV: I know that on this day where you’re trying to send it off – is it hard to come to that point where you say, “It’s finished now. I’m not going to do anything else to it.”?
KN: Yeah it is. I mean, even now, it’s so polished and ready to go, it’s silly. And I’m still debating the littlest points, you know. But I think… for me, part of the process is that I just have to get to the place where I know I’ve gone to the wall and bumped into it! (Both laughing) I can’t just go to the wall! I have to know that I hit my head against it. And then I feel like, you know, even if this isn’t exactly every little thing that I wished I could do, I have to accept that that’s it! It’s at the point where it’s as far as I can take it. There is a place where I think without meaning to you can begin to undo things if you’re not careful! So…


SV: Well, there’s that quality that you get at a live show where things are not perfect, but people love it!
KN: Exactly, exactly. It’s that combination with a record I think, of trying to bring that to it, but at the same time you have to recognize that it’s going to be manufactured thousands of times. And there are people who will, believe it or not, try to scrutinize every little thing, (laughs) and so you try to look at it that way too. But what’s the point if it doesn’t have that vibe and that energy and that spirit of a live performance? I mean, I really don’t like hearing records that – as a producer, I appreciate something that’s produced really well; meaning that it sounds great; everything is just perfectly in tune, perfectly in time… I mean I strive for all those qualities, but I strive for them from the people rather than from the machinery, if that makes sense.


SV: It absolutely makes sense. As an independent artist, it’s crucial that you develop some really creative ways to promote your music. You are promoting this project in a very unique way on your website – literally letting us watch “the making of…” Tell us a little about that and how all that came about.
KN: Well, I started to think about alternative ways to roll-out a new project – this being my 16 th and the 14 th that I’ve done from my own label. You start to, I don’t know, maybe part of it is, you go, “I just need to do something different!” to keep part of it interesting too! I’ve always had an interest in teaching and I’ve always had an interest in film – not that I describe these features that I’m making as “film!” (Laughing) – but I still had an interest in putting those two elements together, so along with other work I was doing with the pre-production of the record, I got myself educated about software for film editing and the best – you can get a really exceptionally good quality video image now for under $500 – digital video. And for the Mac, which is what I use, there is some really exceptionally well-priced professional editing software, as well. It’s been interesting.

Every one of the previews takes almost a whole day for me to do. It seems ridiculous, you know, three-and-a-half to four minutes… how can it take so long!? But it does! But it’s been a lot of fun. It’s been a little frustrating to not be able to go into more depth, but that’s what the extra packages that I’m also putting together that’ll go into much more depth. For instance, a couple of the videos dealt with mixing, and it killed me - I spent three days mixing one song – to have to encapsulate that into five minutes is difficult. And I felt like, gee, this is just over-simplifying. But what more can you do but say, well here’s one instrument at a time, and so on… I’ve really thought out a twenty-minute video I want to do on how one song goes from start to finish. So that’s the place where we’ll get a little more depth.

It’s been great to get feedback from people, and to see people look for them, and know when the due-date is… which I’m actually past one right now, as you know (both laughing). But I just had to let this one slide for a few days.


SV: I’ve found them extremely interesting, and I’m sure that everyone who looks at them does. It’s not often that we get a chance to take a peak inside like that and see what’s going on.
KN: Ah! That’s great! To me, it’s very natural… I don’t feel like I’m “allowing” anybody access, per se, I feel like I’m sharing another part of the process which is fun for me too!


SV: You also have some interesting plans for after the CD is completed. You’ll be selling it initially only on your site?
KN: Right. The actual retail release date, in what we call the “brick and mortars”… meaning the Borders, the Barnes and Nobles, the Best Buys and so forth. That won’t happen until January 25 th. Our national distributors are set to roll it out on that date, and we’ll roll it out to radio some time in January. But, yeah, we’re going to make it available on the site – ONLY on the site, not on Amazon, not on the internet. In other words, just on www.kennavarro.com. That will be December 1 st… the CD as well as the extra packages.

I wanted to get it out there before Christmas, but I also thought it was part of the new way I want to approach this, to say, “People following it on the internet, you get to get it sooner.” You know about it, and we’re not going to make everybody wait ‘til a particular date. And that was a little bit of a concern with our distributor. They’d rather have profitability, but that was part of the deal, and we wrote it into the contract. I really believe that that’s the way things are going to go, and I think it’s unrealistic to think that that’s the only way you can sell something right now. It just isn’t. It’s just unrealistic. Believe me, I wish it wasn’t. I would much rather that it was that way. But I think that five years from now, it won’t be unrealistic at all. And I really want to move in that direction and make it possible for fans of the music that are very internet savvy to be able to purchase it in advance.


SV: You mentioned the different packages that will be available with the CD… tell us a little bit about those.
KN: At this point we’re looking at centering in on two packages: one that’s going to be called “Be the Guitar,” and that will be very focused on the guitar playing and the recording of the guitar, and so on. There will be a video, for example, on how I go about recording acoustic guitar; what mics I use, the way I place the mics, how I approach playing when I’m recording, as opposed to live. There will also be a video in that package on teaching one of the songs from the CD itself, as well as a coordinated audio track that is the mix of that song but without the guitar part, so that once… using the video… you’ve learned how to play the guitar part, you can play it right to the mix just like it would be without my guitar part.

The other package is going to be called “Behind the Scenes.” And that will be… interviews with those who were involved in the creation of the CD. They are all pretty extensive. Most of the interviews are 10- to 15-minutes long. And there are six musicians and the graphic artist as well. I’m going to include all the previews that were on the website in a DVD form, because they look really good when you see them that way, as opposed to the teeny little thing on the site. There will be a photo gallery. We’ve literally taken hundreds of every part of the process. There will be an audio analysis of me talking much like you get on a movie where there’s a director commentary… me just kind of talking through the record saying, “Listen to this…! It’s coming up here…” I think we’re also going to include in that package the demo CD, which is what all the players got, which is me doing everything. It’s the way the song sounded when it was given to the players to learn before we met and made the record, which, I think, if you really like to follow this kind of thing, you’ll hear, “Well, yeah, I can see how it became this. This is where it started.” Both of them we’re going to put on DVD.


SV: You released your first 13 CDs on your own label, Positive Music, and then released two CDs on the Shanachie label. Love Coloured Soul is back on the Positive Music label. How do you compare working with another label with working on your own label – good and bad?
KN: The good part with Shanachie was that it was wonderful to hand it over to somebody and they do all these things for you, as opposed to thinking of is all yourself and doing all that – what I call the stamp-licking process. But I must say from a creative standpoint, which is ultimately why I do this, it’s tough when people are… and Shanachie was as nice and as good about it as anybody really can be… as a label typically is… but still the emphasis was so much trying to come up with a radio hit and trying to second-guess what the future will be of a very uncertain format, as far as commercial radio goes, anyway. And, frankly, I don’t believe in that anymore. I think you’ve got to do what you do, and if it falls in the four walls, and they like it, they’re going to like because you really like it, not because you tried to manipulate something.

The important thing, really… and it’s part of my vision where this format, this type of music, and the new ways of marketing anything are going… as we were talking about earlier, it’s just part of my vision… the idea that the artist should follow their heart and their vision, and if the people like it the commerce follows. So I don’t know what else to do at this point. After having done so many CDs and having been around that block more than once, it just feels really natural to do it this way… to get inspired by something and then have that lead to the next step and so on.


SV: You’ve performed and recorded with quite an impressive list of artists. Are their any really memorable moments that stand out above the rest?
KN: I had the opportunity to do a whole tour with a good friend and great saxophonist, Eric Marienthal. So many moments from that. We probably played 25 shows together; 20 as part of a tour and five other ones that were just different opportunities we had to work together… so many moments from that, particularly some shows that we did out west. And there were also a couple of really memorable shows that I did with Kim Waters and Euge Groove and Slim Man. We were all part of a four-person tour. We played in Detroit… that was at Shane Amphitheatre – a huge amphitheatre there – and they packed the place.  Maysa was part of that one as well. That was a very memorable time. I guess in the studio, I’ve really enjoyed working an awful lot with the bass player that I currently use, Gary Granger, who’s done a lot of different things. Gary’s been on every record of mine since 1995 and I tour a lot. And there are a lot of memorable things that happen in the studio working with Gary (laughs). I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunity to play with people that have really pushed me and humbled me; just feeling like, God, I get to be involved in making music with this person that I’ve always admired, sometimes from a distance. Sometimes I just recognize how great they are and how wonderful it is to get to make music with people like that.


SV: You’ve also produced CDs for a number of artists including 21 y/o saxophonist, Eric Darius...
KN: Oh yeah, a producers dream! He is so great! He’s just a wonderful guy. I keep calling him a kid which I shouldn’t. He’s so young! Actually, what that means is that I’m old. But he really is just a wonderful person, not only a great player but just… sometimes when you are producing, and what that means basically is you’re responsible… it’s like being the director of a movie. That’s the easiest way to explain it when people ask me, “What does a producer do?” That’s really what they are. They are responsible for every note on that record, and in my case, because I engineer as well, I’m really responsible for every note on that record!

But sometimes as a producer, the artists themselves can get very difficult to work with, and I always compare my role at that point to the guy that throws his expensive leather jacket over the puddle… you know what I mean? And that really is the role and you have to put your own ego aside and do what you have to do to make them comfortable.

But Eric was like, “What do we do today!?” “What are we going to do today, Ken?” And whatever direction we needed to go in, he was not only capable, but a very happy, willing, confident participant. I don’t know if I’ve ever met somebody his age before who’s more confident, yet without ego, if you know what I mean. It’s an interesting blend. I’ve certainly known young people who are confident, but they… most of them shouldn’t have been so confident (laughing)! In Eric’s case, he’s confident, and it’s backed up, but there’s no, it’s not like its ego driven, its joy driven. He comes from a great family too, and it all starts there. That’s out on Narada right now and doing really well… selling really well. Ironically, he’s not getting much radio air-play, but it’s selling great. So there you go, you know? He really is a quite a talent and a great live performer too.

I produced some other records that were out on Positive. I did one for another really great saxophonist named Randy Villars, a record I’m really proud of called Every Moment. Randy’s a really incredible player out of Cincinnati, and he opened a couple of shows for me when I played in that part of the country, and he contacted me about doing a record for him, and I was excited to do it.

In fact, another sax player has just hired me to produce his next record, a new guy out of Buffalo named Jack Prybylski. I’m going to be doing that in the winter of next year. It’s a lot of fun to work with other players. And I must say, taking away that element where I’m the key player and the key composer, and being able to just produce is really wonderful! It feels great! I’m looking forward to the next one.


SV: When you look at the younger artists beginning to hit the scene now, what do you see? Do you see a lot of talent coming up the road as far as instrumental artists?
KN: Oh yeah, there always is. And it’s kind of awesome to me, because they get that much more exposure now. The media makes it that much easier for people to draw a lot of influences from many different places. I see it and I wonder… I guess I’m such a realist at this point, having not only gotten to be 50 years old, but also I’ve been doing this as a business as well as a creative adventure… I just wonder where the room for all this talent is. But that’s me.

I tend to always look at it as “how does this work?” Even as a kid, my question before I ever went to music college was, “What kind of job do you get?” And nobody, by the way, could answer that question (laughing), which should have told me something right there.

But no, the talent is definitely there, and hopefully… one of the things that is such a shame about the state of commercial Smooth Jazz radio is that a talent like Eric Darius, who is so far within their four walls, who’s so important to keeping the radio format as a business alive, bringing youth in… they can’t find anything to play. I think that’s such a shame! And, of course, the record is selling great regardless because of the strength of the record, and his playing, and all that. I don’t want to go on a bash about radio, but I think it’s really important for whatever future there is, and I sure wish I could see a little bit more support of that element, from that power.


SV: What kind of advice would you give to a young musician who is interested in pursuing music as a career?
KN: I would definitely tell them the same thing I told Eric, because he asked me the same question; he lived with us for about eight or nine days when he was recording all his sax parts. I basically would say, do everything you can as a composer and as a player to be as good as you can be. Never stop growing, but at the same time, make sure you’re teaching yourself with the other available materials, not just CDs that you’re listening to, and books that you are reading about how to play, and lessons that you are taking, but also all this other available material out there about how you publish something, about how a record contract works, about how to pay your taxes.

These are all things that are may not be much fun but are important in order to have longevity. I’ve seen artists throw everything they’ve got both financially and emotionally into one project and not have anything left for the next one, and the next one, and it really is about building.

One of the great things about the jazz genre in general and the smooth jazz genre in particular is that the audience may be hard to get in and to get to noticed – they’re all busy, they’re all working, they all have 2.5 kids, but when you get them they’ll follow. And that’s about building. That’s the other piece of advice. Learn to stay afloat. Do the very best you can every time out, but make sure you are thinking ahead, not just putting all your eggs in one basket and hoping that that’s going to be a big hit. Because chances are it won’t, but chances are you’ll make a splash, and then you move on to the next place. And that’s how I’ve typically seen it work.


SV: On a more personal note… you started your career in LA and eventually moved back to Maryland with your family. You aren’t originally from Maryland, are you?
KN: Oh yeah, I grew up in Bethesda, Maryland… right outside of DC where the Naval Hospital is… that area. I went to school in Wisconsin and then we came back to DC area for about seven or eight years, and then we moved out to LA for about eight, and then came back here to where we are now, which is closer to Baltimore. We’re happy here. A change may be around the corner that way too, but we’ll just have to see.


SV: You and your family reached a big milestone this year… you saw your son off to college! What was that like for you?
KN: Well, it was tough! Geeze! I don’t know what I was thinking. I was very involved in his whole college selection and very excited for him, and couldn’t wait until the day came to go, and all that. And then it sort of hit me that our family was going to be fundamentally different. I was glad I had the new project and of course all the new internet stuff… I’m really glad to keep my mind over-occupied. I’m doing much better. It was a little tough, and even now I feel a little guilty that I’m not constantly thinking about how he’s doing. I’m much more used to it. He’ll be coming home for Thanksgiving, which will be the first time we’ve seen him since we left him in August, so we’re really looking forward to that too.


SV: Are either of your kids into music?
KN: Eric, my son, is very much into it. He doesn’t play an instrument, as odd as that sounds, but he spends all kinds of time composing and recording music with other people and on his own, with a digital audio studio that I set up for him on his computer system. He actually moved the whole thing to college with him, and I guess he keeps it fairly compact because he doesn’t have much room. I don’t think he’s doing much recording these days, unfortunately, because he’s studying. He’s really got a strong interest in that, and of course it’s a very different type of music and a different focus, but I always felt that the best thing about the technology was that it made it conceptual. In other words, if you have a great idea, you don’t necessarily have to study an instrument for 20 years to figure out how to express the idea.

When I listen to a record, I don’t want to hear what’s in your head. I want to hear what’s in your heart. I want to have it to appeal to me intellectually as a musician, but that isn’t enough. In fact, I’ll listen to music by people who don’t really play all that well, in whatever genre it is, if they’ve just got some strong thing to say.

I never thought Neil Young was a great singer, but I’ll listen to Neil Young before I’ll listen to some really fluent Jazz guitarist who doesn’t have anything of their own to say. That’s just the way I am. I go for the personality before I go for the technique.


SV: I think most people do.
KN: I think so too. That part of me, I feel, is what keeps me in touch with making music that people like rather than what people study. I love to think about music, and I love to look at it that way, but this idea that it comes back to a concept, and the new technology allows you, in a number of different fields, to pursue that without necessarily having to go to music school or study an instrument, is a good thing. I watch my son bump up against that, by the way, all the time, which is when the questions come. “Why does this chord go with this?” It wouldn’t shock me at all if he came home from school with a guitar trying to play it like Jimi Hendrix. Something is going to happen if he keeps pursuing it because it just naturally leads to wanting to create it with your hands as opposed to a keyboard and a mouse.

As far as my daughter, she’s all over the place with her interests. With music, she’s very good at it, but she’s into working hard at school and being a cheerleader and dance, so she’s pretty scattered right now.


SV: But she’s what, 13?
KN: Yeah, exactly. Give her some time. I never push my kids that way at all. I’ve always approached it from, “hey, whatever I can tell ya, great!” But we’ve never said, “Take lessons,” or any of that. If they want to, great, if they don’t bring it up, I don’t want to go down that road. It’s too much work!


SV: Love Coloured Soul will be released officially January 25 th. It’s probably hard to think about it right now, but what’s next? Will you be touring in support of the album? Any projects coming up soon that you are producing?
KN: The project with Jack. I’ll be producing in February and March and recording too. I just had a conversation a week ago with my booking agent and they’re centering everything around that retail release date. They’re already booking things in March and April… so yeah, we’ll use the record to launch the whole year with that. I’ve been very focused on this record and this project so I haven’t been touring any the last couple of months. Hoping to maybe do a couple of things in December but we’ll see. It gets tough in the winter months because some parts of the country get pretty unreliable to travel to anyway.


SV: Thank you for your time Ken. People can visit your website at www.kennavarro.com for all the latest on what’s happening with you.
KN: Yeah! And thanks so much for thinking of me for this interview.

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