Welcome to the new year and the brave new world. The changes in the music industry have affected everyone, but perhaps even more within the realm of smooth jazz because it has been considered a niche genre and it is adult oriented – two things that don't make it very interesting to the industry at large. Major labels are getting out of the game and radio is shifting to a pop vocal sound. So what is an artist to do? Get brave and try new things, That means basically picking up the way the music was evolving before the smooth radio format changed it and going from there. This means bringing back individuality and energy. Hints of this trend showed up a lot last year in CDs like Acoustic Alchemy and Hiroshima's last ones.

Ken Navarro is not just hinting, he's going there. He is in the process of recording a new CD that doesn't sound like anything he has done before. That means not just taking musical risks but being gutsy and creative about finding ways to get it heard. One way has been to “leak” a pre-recording session demo to fans via the internet. He first posted the link on a forum and got people quite excited about it. He wanted to share it with an even broader group so he is letting us post the link so you can  hear it, and he's talking about the process and the shifts that occur when you shake off the old and step into the new. This conversation jumped out of bounds too. It started out as an interview but evolved into more of a conversation between a musician and a fan who both came into this music loving the same group of artists and the sound that it used to have. We talked about exploring new territory, survival in the post-radio post-retail era and the joy that music that comes from the heart can bring. Fans who came in before 1995 or so will be thrilled, you who came later will be amazed at how this music makes you feel!

The CD is going to be called The Grace of Summer Light. Here is the link for the demo track mentioned in the interview, a work in progress: www.kennavarro.com/kennavarrodemo1803.htm

Ken has created a page on his website where listeners can follow the process of the creation of this music. Ken will be making regular diary entries and adding more audio preivews as the recording continues and he prepares to release the CD in early May. www.kennavarro.com/summerlightprestuff/summerlight.htm

SV: Obviously this is new territory. You've made quite a career playing some of the most enjoyable music fall within the realm of smooth jazz. You've always pushed the boundaries live and on the deeper tracks in the CDs. This has that beautiful melodic thing going on but it's a totally different kind of animal.
KN: When you and I talked about The Meeting Place when it first came out. I remember saying more off the record than anything else that this is just the first step as far as stepping into the deep end and moving away from the concept of what smooth jazz has been defined as, at least in radio terms.Then  I hung up the phone and said to myself "Well I said it, now I've gotta do it." 

SV: It's that little inner voice going public, you put it out there then you have to seriously think about going for it.
KN: In September I started to write again but I set the bar at a completely different place than I had before. The first song that I started to write ended up taking a lot longer than it took to write most of the songs I've done. It took weeks instead of days. At that point I decided to do whatever it takes and give myself as much time as I needed whether that was two days, two weeks, or two months. That's how I approached the writing, which I did for almost three months straight. Every piece started off with a basic idea, what I might call a musical question. For example, with the song that I am sharing the link for the question was how would you construct a piece of music if it was in 26/8 time. I came up with a time signature and broke it up into pieces that were manageable. As I answered each musical question the answer would lead to another question. That was the genesis of each song. Every step in this process is about simply following where the music goes. I honestly feel like whatever happens in as far commercial aspect, what matters most is that I want people to hear this. I feel confident that when you create it this way the music will find its audience and it there will be something there that transcends whatever the current trends and fads are. The other aspect is I've tried to be true to my melodic self - the part of me that loves things that are warm and take you on a trip - the things that I like myself as a listener. Even though the form and the structure of the music is a lot more sophisticated those other elements are still there. Most of the people who have heard that demo  track and told me they enjoyed it are not even aware that it is in 26/8 time. I even had one person email me and tell me they liked it but they really wanted to hear the one that was in 26/8.

SV: The first thing I noticed was that there was an underlying complexity but the overall effect was this beautiful melodic overlay. You mentioned Steve Reich's "Different Trains" in your blog as a influence. That was a piece he did with Pat Metheny that layered a lot of guitar tracks in a quirky time signature. It was a really progressive composition but really listenable. You've taken that concept a little further by pulling the thread that makes  your smooth jazz stuff so appealing and put it into this different fabric.
KN: One of the things I've always loved is the whole Pat Metheny Group evolution. I always found myself loving the beauty of the music and the way it felt, then under repeated listening there is always something new I'm hearing. The writing has evolved and continues to gets richer, and the actual tools they are using are more sophisticated than ever. That's the path I'm on now. It took me 17 years to get to it (laughs). I had to do all the other music to get to this place where I felt confident enough to go for it. I don't know, maybe it's just a combination of things and maybe it's about maturity too.

SV: I'm thinking it may be an intersection of time and place because we've narrowed the focus as far as we can afford to in terms executing a formula. People don't want to spend their money or time on something that sounds like everything they already have. With the evolution of the radio format to a national network of Smooth A/C stations playing a limited selection of instrumentals the airplay isn't going to be available for most artists so there's a lot more to gain by sounding like yourself, playing for the audience, and creating a buzz that way.
KN: As an artist I feel like there is no other way to do it anyway, and putting my business hat on as a label owner I look at it and feel the same way. I don't want to sound like I'm putting anyone else down because you have to follow what feels right to you when it feels right to you, but having said that I feel like you can't decide to glide, to play it safe or just do what you always did. I feel like you need to dig deeper and take more risks, I'm doing that more now than ever.  That's the process that makes you an artist.

SV: I think one thing about the musicians and record companies who play it safe is they have been given a distorted perception of their audience by market research companies. They are encouraged to do what numbers indicate, the danger there being that as you see more numbers you see less humans. You start to lose touch. Look at the age group we are talking about. These are people who came in with literate singer/songwriters, progressive rock and a real openness to instrumental music. Did they really become their parents and start wanting easy listening music or did they just lose touch with the really exciting stuff because it has been neutralized over the years and they have forgotten how good it feels and sounds. Now I hear a lot of musicians  following the path back to their own sound -what they see crowds responding to in live performances. Go to the audience. That is the way to survive now.
KN: I think the key word  you used there was "neutralized." That's a good word for it because it got muted down. It's not gone but somehow got banished to the back of the room.

SV: Then you look at Metheny. He has maintained his following and keeps adding on to it for all these years by doinbg what he does. He doesn't sound like anyone else and his CDs don't sound like each other, but his music speaks to people at a gut level and the originality and lack of boundaries is a big part of that.
KN: Absolutely. The other thing I've noticed, especially with the kinds of pre-promotion I am doing with this is that there is a large international audience when you go into this kind of territory. You look at Metheny, who has a  huge international audience, and it really gives truth to that saying that music is a universal language. You see how that kind of music crosses borders and connects with people. It's hard for me to start thinking about marketing right now because I'm absorbed in creating the music and getting it recorded but I've been cultivating that audience over the last few years. Especially recently while I'm preparing for this CD to come out. I've really been reaching out to the fan base that I've developed as well as trying to get more people who have never heard of me. Or who may have heard of me but don't know what I do because in places like Germany there aren't many outlets for what we call smooth jazz so the artists who play it aren't very high profile.

SV: I've seen a lot of artists comment about international audiences being more open, but I also think it has to be understood that the fans in this country are not as narrow as researchers make them look. There are so many filters between them and the music that at this point they don't know what's available.  That doesn't mean they won't like something more if they can find it and hear it.
KN: It's funny because one of the things that I've noticed as I slowly, selectively leaked the link to that demo is that I keep getting the same kind of feedback, that people love it, and I'm really happy to see that. They don't say anything about it being complicated or over their head. That doesn't come up at all. They are hungry for something that speaks directly to them that way, it's almost a spiritual thing. I think part of the reason that artists in this genre are afraid to stretch is because they are encouraged not to.

SV: And they don't want to bite the hand that has been feeding them, which has been the radio format.
KN: That too. I also think that when you really stretch as an artist you have to really go deep. At least it's been that way for me.  I've had to dig very deep inside myself as a person to get to that place where I can write this kind of music. You have to really be willing to go through some fire to get to this stuff, and you have to take chances and be willing to get out of your comfort zone. That's not an easy thing, especially for people who are staying in their comfort zone. having success with that, and getting positive reinforcement from it. You become out of practice at looking inside that way and it gets harder to do.

SV: But right now in any business if you don't take some risks and move forward you're going to get left in the dust. So safety is actually risky now in the long run. It's not easy to get out of that space  but the payoff is big.
KN: The payoff is big but the growth can be painful. The more personal it is the more you feel that way. There's a lot of joy but to get that joy you have to take yourself through some scary places.

SV: When you look at something like this compositionally did you find yourself going through a self-intimidation process while you were doing this writing?
KN: Oh God, yes! That's what made it so difficult. There's this risk of editing yourself before you've gotten going. Part of the creative process is that you have to have a suspended disbelief that you're great. (he laughs, I laugh, we all laugh). When you raise the bar and move into new territory it's very easy to never get to that place because you start editing yourself before you've gotten any head of steam up by telling yourself “that's not good enough.”  Getting the wheel moving is the hardest part. To start by saying you're gonna do the 100 yard dash in nine seconds is not the way to get your confidence up. Once you're on the third or fourth piece you're in a better position to not be so self-critical. Ultimately, I had to tell myself that if all I got done in one 10 hour day was10 bars of music and I really liked those 10 bars then I had a good day. That's what got me over that psychological hump. Otherwise I was my worst enemy. Once I got going it did get easier. The trick is to never stop doing this because once you stop it's hard to start up again.

SV: When you presented this to the musicians you would be recording with how did that react to it?
KN: The only musician I've worked with a lot before who will be on the record extensively  is Jay Rowe on keyboards. I brought him demos on an iPod last November and he got very excited. We've been in pre-production adding keyboard parts and new sounds, working and experimenting to feel out what we want to do. It's harder because these songs take a lot more time to learn and you really have to learn them before you can think about what to do in the studio.

SV: So now he's in that push zone too, because anyone who has seen him live knows he's somebody who is going to be able to contribute a lot to a project like this.
KN: You should hear what we are doing. He comes from that east coast thing that is more about inspiration than about everything being polished, which is perfect. The other players are people I'm working with for the first time. Joel Rosenblatt is a phenomenal drummer. He has this combination of looseness and an organic quality to his playing which is what the music needs, but he's also an extremely technically proficient player who doesn't blink an eye at anything that gets thrown at him. I'm going to his studio in New York to record, which will be great for getting what we both want. He has a tremendous skill at recording drums so I know I'm going to get a certain sonic quality. When I was recording the demos I kept using acoustic bass, there's one song that's electric and one song that has a Jaco-like fretless bass. The problem with acoustic bass is that these are not straightahead jazz songs and I had to find a player who could really give me more than what was on the demos. The demos are not supposed to be the final arrangement, they are supposed to give the players a framework to expand on. It had to be someone who could play a lot of styles of music and feel comfortable. I found Tom Kennedy. He understands how to play acoustic bass on the types of things that are usually done on electric bass, and how to play electric bass with the sensitivity of an acoustic bass player. There won't be any sax. I don't hear any in this music, and there's very little percussion because the focus on these songs is toward the drums.

SV: So you're doing what most people should do more often. You're shedding the "shoulds" and going with what the music is asking for.
KN: Whenever you add something in you are filling up a space. Good musicians react to that by playing more carefully and playing less, which isn't always bad but it's not what this music dictates. The “shoulds” tend to be the things you hear when you are with a record label. Or really it's the "shouldn'ts that you hear from a label.

SV: You did something totally unprecedented with this project. You have released an in-process demo track to a group of fans via the Internet and asked for feedback. You did this privately but then you posted the link on an open forum on Magicisland.com. I've seen indie rock bands that are just starting out do that, but never an established artist, and not in this genre.
KN: I felt like that was a good place to put my big toe in the water, so to speak, and see how people would look at something like that. To me, when I see people using the new technology and the Internet simply to say "buy my thing"  I always feel kind of offended. Like it's just another advertisement. I wanted to give people something they can't get any other way than establishing a direct line and following the artist. It's hard to share a demo because it's just me playing all the parts. There is a reluctance to share that because it's so far from what I hear as the finished product. It's another thing that requires getting past that fear of doing something different. Hopefully it will get people excited and then they will tell other people about it. I can best serve the music by giving people a chance to hear it and that means trying new ways to get it out there. Frankly, I don''t think any of this is going to end up on the radio. There are outlets like Internet radio or Music Choice but it's doubtful that anyone is going to push a button on their car radio on the way to work and hear these songs. You've got find other ways to build a buzz.

SV: Thats going to be a matter of being as experimental in getting this out there. You own the record company and have the freedom to do that. It could really impact the way our artists work their music by showing them some doors they haven't thought about opening. Right now you hear a lot about so-called "boomers" being locked into an old business model and the kids having the new thing down but there are a lot of people our age (laughs) who are ready to work it the new way. What we also have is the experience of being the last group that found music from the grassroots up before the younger group that is coming up now. Everyone in between mostly found music because it was marketed to them and hyped.
KN:  My reasoning is that there are people who love this music - the type of contemporary jazz that a lot of us grew up with. If they hear it and get excited about it then tell five other people, that's what I'm looking to have happen. You've got to work hard at it. The great thing about the Internet is that if you really come up with something good it can be heard. You don't have to get it on the radio or put it in a brick and mortar store on a front display. I'll be trying to do all those things but it's a drop in the bucket in terms of getting the music heard.

SV: There is definitely an audience for it. Not just the people who fell in love with this type of music because of the way it sounded before it got smoothed out, but also a whole group of new people who haven't been exposed to it yet. Once you see that you don't have to settle for less it's hard to turn back. Thank you for being in front of the pack here. When the first ones to move off the beaten path are successful the others will start going “maybe I should try that too.”  It will be a different thing for each 
individual. It's not a matter of everyone suddenly becoming “progressive” because that's not where everyone wants to be. But what will be exciting is hearing more artists work with less restraint. That has to happen if we want this music to thrive.