May 12, 2006
Interviewed by Mary Bentley

They don’t make them like Brenda Russell anymore.  Here is a gifted singer and songwriter who not only has 12 albums of her own to her credit, but has written songs that were performed and/or recorded by some of the biggest names in the music industry like Ray Charles, Sting, Mary J. Blige, Luther Vandross, and Al Jarreau, to name a few.  The list goes on.  And, if that’s not enough, she has taken her talents to the big screen and the Broadway stage.  Catching her breath from the enormous success of the musical, The Color Purple, SmoothViews had a chance to chat with the talented Ms. Brenda Russell.

SmoothViews (SV): I’m very glad to speak with you today.  I wanted to get started by first talking about The Color Purple.  I know that you’re a co-writer for the musical score.  How did you get involved with that?
Brenda Russell (BR): My friend, Allee Willis, one of my co-writers, had called me up to come and work on a project with her.  This was before The Color Purple came into our lives.  She was working on one of her own projects that was an animated show on the internet for Oxygen.  Stephen Bray, who is the third co-writer, was working with her.  They wanted to move along a little bit faster, so they called me to come and help them out.  When the three of us started writing, we realized that there was some sort of magical thing happening, that we just kind of clicked really well.  And we put in the universe, “I think we need something bigger,” because what we were doing was for fun, not for the money.  There was no money involved, but we enjoyed working [together].  We admired each other as artists, but we realized that this was something that we should pursue between the three of us.  Before you knew it, Scott Sanders was on the phone to Allee, who’s an old friend of hers, looking for writers to write this score for him, and my name was on his list.  Allee is this multimedia kind of artist. He wasn’t really thinking of her as a song writer at the time.  She said, “What about all of us trying it?”  He went along with that, but we all had to audition.  Everyone who was trying to get this job had to write a spec song, or two songs to submit.  We had sort of a temporary script that they had.  We took the two hardest scenes in the script that we had and went for it, and wrote these two songs, one of which is still in the show today.

SV: As far as writing the music, I know from seeing other musicals that the songs are not just songs, they’re an integral part of telling the story of what’s going on onstage.  Was that any different from writing pop songs?
BR: Absolutely, yes.  It was very different because you have to propel the story through the songs.  It’s almost like when the character can say no more, the next thing that the characters’ going to say has to be sung.  But it can’t stand still – it has to propel the action.  So that was a big lesson to learn about writing for theater.  Basically, in pop writing, you have your verse, you have your chorus that keeps repeating itself, or not.  But in the theater, you have to tell it and make it move, so it’s not any stagnant thing happening, which was a great challenge.  I really loved it.  I’m a storyteller anyway [with] the way I like to write.  It was a great challenge.  The biggest lesson for me, for all of us, was the rewrite part.  Rewriting is something you don’t necessarily do in pop music.  You rewrite it for yourself, but once you release it to someone, give it to an artist to sing, or give it out, once you leave it and say it’s done, nobody comes back to you usually and says, “Could you give me a different verse?  Could you rework that chorus please?”   It doesn’t happen.  But in the theater, it happens all the time.  That was the biggest thing to learn.  It’s not about writing a show, it’s about rewriting a show.  You’re constantly rewriting; the scene may change, they may take one of the characters out of a scene.  There are so many variables.  Every time something changes, you have to adapt your lyric, and sometimes your music, because the mood of the scene has changed.  Therefore, you have to change the mood of the music.  So, that was a big, huge lesson.

SV: That’s interesting, because when I go to the theater I’m seeing the finished product, the end result.  I’m not even thinking that all of this has gone on.
BR: Yes!  It’s amazing.  That’s why anyone you ever meet who’s written a musical will tell you this is not an easy job.  We worked on this show for five years.  I didn’t know when I got into it I’d still be in it five years later.  I had no idea.

SV: So, knowing all this now and having experienced all of this, is this something you’d like to do again?
BR: I would definitely do it again.  Not tomorrow (laughs), but I would definitely do it again.  Once you’ve done something as challenging as a Broadway musical it’s hard to go back to being just confined to a certain format.  It’s very restrictive writing pop songs, and even more today than it used to be because radio is only going to play so much of one kind of thing at one time.  So, it’s very limited, especially if you become a mature artist.  Most genres of creativity, as you get older, your art is more revered, like a painter or a book writer/novelist.  The older they get, their work is richer.  They’re wiser.  There are more brilliant colors.  They don’t play that in music.  It’s like if you’re over 30 then you’re out.  It’s interesting that we don’t honor the age of the artists.  Some of my favorites are mature because they have more to say.  They learn how to say it better.  They are playing way more interesting chords, and I find that stimulating.  James Taylor is a perfect example of what I’m saying.  The last album I have by him, October Road, that album just kills me.  It’s just so brilliant and melodic and lyrical.  It’s one of the best records he’s ever made.  It’s just a great example of how an artist just gets so good when they get older.

SV: I know you wrote, “Justice of the Heart” for the movie John Q.  Was that also a different process, writing for film?
BR: Yes, but writing with Stevie [Wonder] is a whole process unto itself.  It was pretty exciting.  He’s so amazing, and so unpredictable.  I just put it out there.  One day he called me and said, “Okay Bren.  Don’t say anything.”  He starts playing this music and melody over the phone.  I’m looking around my room thinking, “How can I tape this?  I think this is incredible!”  One time, and that’s it.  It was so great.  And that’s how we started writing that song, “Justice of the Heart.”  But writing for film is something I like very much.  Often, they are into the rewrite thing too.  They’re not musical people, so they don’t see things or describe things in a musical term, so you’re trying to guess what they’re talking about.  Then, when you do what you think they want, they’ll tell you, “Well, we were actually thinking of something else.”  So, unless you have a really good director who really knows what he wants musically straight out, who gives you the right sort of clues so you can actually figure out what to write, it’s a bit of a dance.

SV: Do they give you a little film clip or something so you know what you’re working with?
BR: Yes.  Often that happens where they’ll have a scene and they’ll give you a little rough up, depending on what it is. Titles can also give you a rough of the movie.  That’s really great because you get a real feel for what the movie is about so you can write for it.  I love writing for films.  I think that’s going to be something I can really get into when I recuperate from The Color Purple. (laughs)

SV: That may be awhile.  I hear it’s doing well.
BR: It’s doing so well.  We’re extremely fortunate, first of all, and blessed.  Just because you spent five years on a show doesn’t mean that people are going to go see it.  So many shows just fold up.  Every week that we’re open we thank God.

SV: That’s great.  I think the price point matters too.  It’s not priced the way some of the other shows are.  I think it’s a little more affordable for most people.
BR: Our producer was very conscious to try and shape those ticket prices so that everyone could come.  They said that everyone who wanted to see this show could find a way to get an affordable ticket, which I thought was great.  As a result of that, we’ve changed the demographics of the audience.  There are a lot more African Americans coming to the show.  They always say that African Americans don’t support Broadway in big numbers.  This show has totally broken that stereotype.  And I don’t think it’s just the prices being low, because there are a lot of Black people with money who can afford theater tickets.  It’s the show itself – the story.  It’s The Color Purple.  People love The Color Purple. That’s all there is to it. (laughs)  I have discovered along these years that people have read the novel over and over.  They’ve seen the movie 20 times.  They can quote you dialogue.  It’s amazing.

SV: It doesn’t hurt to have Oprah Winfrey’s name attached to it either.
BR: No.  That was fantastic.  Oprah came on board a couple of months before we opened.  She was one of the last people to come on board, but what she did was alert the media, so to speak, that we were there. That was the biggest blessing to us.  And Quincy as well; Quincy came on board right before her as a producer.   He brought a lot of energy and might to it.  It’s really a special thing to be a part of.

SV: I’m going to change gears a little.  Do you consider yourself a singer first, or a songwriter first?  Or, are you somewhere in the middle?
BR: I think I’m somewhere in the middle because I always knew, even as a kid, that I wanted to write.  The first thing I thought I would be was a journalist.  When I was really little, I would always read the newspaper and think, “Oh, I want to write those stories in the paper.”  I don’t know why I had that concept, but I did. (laughs)  Both of my parents are musicians, so I grew up with music in my house.  I started putting the two of them together and I realized what would set me apart from being just another Black girl singing is to be able to write my own songs.  I thought that would be really good.  I was so inspired by so many to have that concept.  The first one that comes to mind is Carole King.  She had all these songs.  She was writing, playing, and singing.  That’s what I wanted to do.  I was very inspired by her.  There were a lot of women around that time who were singing and playing their own stuff.

SV: You have such a string of hits that are yours or have been sung by other people.  I saw you at Berks this year at the Ivan Lins show.  “She Walks This Earth” is a great tune.  It was a made famous by Sting (including a Grammy), but you wrote the lyrics.
BR: Yes, Sting won a Grammy for that.  Ivan Lins is one of my favorite artists.

SV:  I don’t think a lot of people outside of the industry realize just how many people you’ve written songs for.  They are such great songs, like “If Only For One Night,” made famous by Luther Vandross, and the fact that your music is so across the board.  It’s not genre specific.
BR: I think it’s because the way I was raised up in music, with all kinds of music.  I grew up a lot in Canada and got exposed to a whole lot of different kinds of music there – a lot of country, a lot of soul.  There’s a lot of stuff going on up in Canada.  I really have a broad appreciation for music in general.  And that’s why I’ve had artists from Lynrd Skynrd to Ray Charles.  I think it’s fantastic.  I’m always honored by that.  I always tell young writers that you have to envision what it is you want.  See it for yourself first.  Nobody sees that vision for you.  I always envisioned that famous artists were going to record my songs.  I was really young and I just envisioned that, and those things came to pass.

SV: That’s great.  That was actually my next question.  What advice would you give someone trying to break into the business as a singer/songwriter today?
BR: To have a vision; where you see yourself, what you want to do – a goal.  Set a goal and a time limit.  I gave myself five years.  I said I was going to learn how to play piano.  I didn’t take lessons.  I was self taught. “I’m going to learn how to play piano and write my own songs.  I’m going to give myself five years to do it.” Of course, it didn’t take five years.  That was my goal setting.  A year later, I had written my first song.  I love to tell people to stay true to that voice inside of you that tells you who you are and how to express it, and not to try to copy what’s already been done because that’s what will make you stand out and last longer.  You can always repeat yourself.  You can always come up with an original idea when you start there.  If you start by copying other people’s styles, the trend of the day, you kind of get stuck there.

SV: In this day and age, there are a lot of songs that sound alike.  It’s hard to distinguish one from the other as far as the singers and the lyrics.  There are also a lot of songs out there that don’t really say anything, or they’re basically filled with sexual innuendos, and not really saying anything other than variations of that same type of sexual message.  However, you’re known for your great music and lyrics.  How do you set yourself apart from those types of “one of the pack” songs and singers?
BR: One of the things is that everybody thinks they can write a lyric, which is not quite true.  Everybody can say, “Hey baby, do me, do me.” (laughs)  You really have to have an inclination or a desire to be a lyricist, seriously.  And then try to say it differently than everyone else has said it.  That’s what I always try to do.  It may be the same story, but try to say it differently than anyone else has said it.  And then push yourself.  So many writers just settle.  I’ve written, too, with a lot of people over the years.  When I was younger, I realized that people really like to settle.  “Okay, that’s good.”  I say, “No, it’s not.  Let’s push it harder.  Can we make that better?”  And that will give you a better lyric.  Keep pushing the envelope.  That’s one thing you really have to do in theater.  With pop songs, I was doing that when I was much younger because I never wanted to say it like everybody else.  That’s why I enjoy, sometimes, writing by myself more as a pop writer because a lot of my pop co-writers were not willing to push the lyrics.  They would just settle for the ordinary.  You have people that went before you that were saying amazing things in lyrics, like the Gershwin’s, or the Cole Porters.  These people were creating such amazing pictures with words.  I always loved that. 

People want to visualize in their mind what you’re singing about.  Paint a picture for them so they could see it in their minds; a song like “Get Here,” the pictures I was painting with that.  “You can reach me by railway; you can reach me by trail way…cross the desert like an Arab man.”  People love that because they can see it in their minds.  I think the onset of video was a setback for lyricists in a way because people didn’t have to imagine the lyrics as much.  It was already now presented to them in a visual form - what the lyricist meant, or what the director thought the lyricist meant.  You really don’t have the freedom, the free thought of what the lyric meant to you.  And nowadays, the videos are a little more abstract, so who knows what’s going on there?  I don’t know what they’re saying anyway.  I see a lot of bumping and grinding.  But when videos first started coming, they were demonstrating the song for you, and I thought this was going to make writers be more creative about their lyrics.  Maybe that’s not the case.  The listener doesn’t have the freedom to imagine the way they did [in the past.]  It’s all handed to them.

Writers and lyricists just have to work harder.  Young people need to try a little harder to say something that is going to help people feel better.  In this world, the reality is so stark and cold.  Sometimes people need music and lyrics that will lift them up.  I’m not just talking about Gospel music; I’m talking about everyday music.  Things that will make them feel a little bit lighter in their spirit and their step.  That’s really what we need.  And also, the whole romance thing – the love songs that look at women with romance instead of this aggressiveness that’s going on.  It’s taken away the romance of interacting between men and women.  That’s a very precious thing and I’d love to see more of that.  I’ve met a lot of young people who really have a lot to say.  It’s not just about booty, booty, booty.  They’re out there.  They just need to be heard.  They’re some serious, bright, conscious, aware young people, and I want to hear all that in the music.

SV: So these are some of the things that inspire you when you write?
BR: I’m very inspired by people and by life; the things people say, the thoughts you have in your quiet moments.  I’m a title person.  I write titles down even before a song’s attached to it.  I always think there’s a song in a good title, you just have to dig it out. (laughs)  That’s how “Piano in the Dark” came.  I had the title first.  A couple of songs I had the title first and just lived with it.  Then there are some that will come to me with music.  It’s fun.  It’s like a jigsaw puzzle.  I always approach the music like the song is already written.  If you want to write a song, or you have an idea for a song, in my view, it’s already written somewhere, at some level of the universe.  It’s already done and it’s my job to remember how it goes.  That’s the way I approached The Color Purple.  And that’s how I approach songwriting in general, when I haven’t let it make me crazy. (laughs)

SV:  It’s there.  You just have to pull it out.  That makes it sound so easy, but I know it’s not.
BR: It’s a letting go.  That’s what it really is.  It’s to help people let go.  I’ve heard novelists say things like that about the characters; they didn’t know how it was going to end.  I just find that fascinating.  They were just writing.  It’s coming through, and the next thing you know, they have a story.  I think it’s a similar thing.

SV: I mentioned earlier that you were part of the Ivan Lins show at Berks in March.  I know you have the Dolphin Days event coming up in June.  What else is coming up that you’d like your fans to know about?
BR:  I haven’t done the Dolphin Days before, but I love Hawaii.  That should be interesting.  I’m sort of mulling around my next album.  I’ve just been, not fiercely attacking it.  I’m just kind of coming down easy from this five year energy extravaganza, but that will definitely be my next thing.  And, I’m going to South Africa in August.  I’m kind of excited about that jazz festival they’re doing down there.  That’s another reason why we Americans need to catch up and open up.  There are so many international artists that are just killing – our music mixed with their culture and music, and it’s just – wow!  It’s good to open up.

SV: It is.  Thank you very much for speaking with me today.  It’s definitely been my pleasure.  You have a great day.
BR: Well thank you.  And you too.

www.brendarussell.com