Over his 20 year recording career Lao Tizer has grown from a gifted young instrumentalist and composer to the leader of TIZER, the groundbreaking world-fusion band with a lineup of super-group proportions that carries his name. Downbeat is the band's first studio album and his first as a co-producer (with long time guitarist Jeff Kollman). They have given us an album that is both adventurous and accessible, with over an hour of no-holds-barred playing by an astonishingly talented group of musicians. Lao Tizer speaks with as much color and passion as he plays. You can hear it in his music and you will feel it in his words. He is also deeply involved in the business side of recording, touring, and promoting the music. A true multi-tasker, with a lot going on, we had this wonderful conversation while he was on the way to a gig.
SmoothViews (SV): I feel like this is the album you have been wanting to make for a really long time.
Lao Tizer (LT): I think it is. I actually I got a really nice message from my original bass player, Christopher, who lives in West Palm Beach and owns a music school down there. I sent him a copy of the album and he said he felt like this was the album we were meant to make, the one that should have been made. That was very gratifying and humbling because we go back a long time. The feedback and the reviews we have seen so far have all been extremely strong. I think there is a hunger though the whole landscape for something that is a little more fresh and edgy and that's what we did here. I think we went for a no holds barred approach and tried to capture the essence of this particular group of musicians. We worked very hard at it and I'm very proud of the outcome.
SV: Why now? Do you think it is just easier to do this because you have a stronger sense of the identity of the band and the interplay of the musicians, or that the industry climate is more supportive in terms of artists being innovative and pushing boundaries than it used to be?
LT: I think it's all of those things. There is not much left of the kind of entrenched radio formula that was around before. This album might not have gotten a lot of acceptance within those confines. Now, the single, “World In Rhythm,” has gotten a very warm response. We have been on the most added list for three weeks in a row. That's very cool for a track that is different from what usually gets played. It's commercially accessible and melodic but the rhythm section approach is straight out of Africa, it's very different. It's pretty cool that it is getting play at commercial radio. When I released Diversify in 2007 that was the most I had ever tried to fit in to the smooth world and it still didn't fit, or at least it wasn't fully accepted. I think it was a strong record but I feel like my artistic purpose, or journey, or destiny, or whatever you want to call it, is to make music that is close to my heart and I have to stay true to that. I can't try to be something that I am not or try to make a record that is not where the heart of the group is. Everybody had a huge role in this one and their voices are all very much in it. I think this album represents the diversity of interests and flavors and backgrounds we have and our desire to make something that's is really “balls to the wall. “
SV: By the time Diversify came out the radio format was evolving into lite Adult Contemporary and they were mostly doing pop oldies and instrumental covers of pop oldies. A new artist doing original music wasn't going to get any love regardless of how strong the music was. It had to be disappointing though.
LT: It was at the time. I was kind of disenchanted and a little bit depressed for a while. Then a year later a fan approached me about making a record that was closer to my roots. I did that with Passages. Ever since then I have tried to let go of thinking about these commercial boundaries. I just want to make the best record I can make.
SV: The good news is that now the programmers who have survived don't have their hands tied so they can jump on a song when they feel like it has merit and listeners will enjoy it. The timing is perfect for what you are doing now.
LT: Absolutely, and I think the fans and the genre alike are seeking out a return to more organic, intuitive, adventurous music. I get the feeling they are kind of tired of the status quo. I see that in our audiences. I feel like the timing was good for this one. I'm really grateful to my business partners at the label for giving us the opportunity to make a record that is so artistic and so true to who we are. As a musician you couldn't ask for more.
SV: These songs definitely go beyond the pop song structure where you have a verse, chorus and bridge that repeat then wrap up in a nice 3 ½ minute package. There is so much going on in each track. What was the process of composition for these songs?
LT: It was a mix of stuff. About half of the songs were my tunes and the other half were either collaborations between me and Chieli or me and Rufus. There are three or four of them that were written collaboratively with the band in the room together coming up with ideas and writing the song on the fly like that. Those tunes are the ones that really capture the ensemble nature of what TIZER has become. This group isn't about any one instrument or any one musician. We play shows in every configuration from a trio to a seven piece band and it is always very much inclusive. Everyone is featured and that array of flavors and different colors are what defines us. There is so much talent and there are so many powerhouse musicians in this band that our strength is also our biggest challenge. How do we harness what we have and use it best without having it become too much - too much of a wall of sound, too much going on at once, or something like that? There is the challenge of making decisions on what players and what instruments are going to be featured on each song. For instance, there are two fantastic guitarists on the album, Chieli and Jeff, so which song suits which one of them best? I think it is a really balanced project. It gives everyone a voice for what they do and hopefully the listener will enjoy that ride.
SV: When you have this type of creative process and music that is so expansive how do you nail it down in the studio and then go out and replicate it live?
LT: The recording process for this was that the heart of every song was done live in the studio. The least we had playing at once was four and the most was six. It was mostly two percussionists, drums, piano or keys, guitar and bass all playing live. It was a really intense session and we were ambitious about the approach. This was my first time leading the session so I was focusing on my performance and capturing the best performance of the overall group. Some of the songs came very quickly – we only did one take of “Tanzanika” - and some of the others we did a few takes to give us some options. It was definitely an ambitious project and there was a lot going on. I think I spent over 50 hours in the studio over those four days. It was intense but that's the journey we are on. You've got to accept it with open arms and dive in.
SV: I'm just amazed that so much music could be captured. These songs go so many places and there are so many elements to them. They unfold the more you listen to them too.
LT: There is so much talent here, so many great soloists, so many ideas and influences, so many people to feature. The challenge is to harness that and turn it into a cohesive, shining product. Making a record is not a party (laughs); you really sweat through that stuff. This album was really a bear to mix because there is so much going on. We had to get it to work so everybody got heard. When I listen back now, I am really proud, because you can hear a lot of details. It's the kind of record you could listen to 10 times and hear something different every time. Jeff and I really worked hard on it and that's what it takes. It was fun but people should know that it is painstaking. There is an immense amount of detail. I'm glad I got to have this experience. Then you release it and it's out there for everybody else to enjoy and you kind of let go of that part of it. I haven't listened to it in a while. Now that I've got a little distance from it I will pop it in one day and sit back and enjoy what we did. Right now I'm enjoying playing the songs live and sharing the music with the audiences, and (laughs) selling lots of CDs.
SV: So you are selling lots of CDs?
LT: It's going very well. The response at the live shows has been phenomenal. I couldn't ask for more on that front. The retail side is very challenging these days. We have to get as much exposure as we possibly can for this project and kind of shout loudly about it. I think that as long as it's heard it promises to bring big things for us.
SV: It is going to be one of those that have a long life span too, because it is music that you can live with for a long time, and with all those elements it still really flows. It had to be a process to make this sound so seamless and complex and imaginative at the same time.
LT: It was. There is a lot going on sonically and you have to make the right decisions so each arrangement comes together in the right way. In the end you are showcasing the instruments but you are also trying to convey a vibe and a feeling and a message with each song. Some of the songs have a real underlying emotion. I think this is a good one for people who like to kind of bite off an album and chew it, so to speak.
SV: That's how we used to listen to all these great albums that came out during the album oriented era. You actually put it on and really got into it. Now there is more of a song orientation in the business but every once in a while one comes along that you want to experience all the way through.
LT: Yeah, in a certain way it is a throwback, at least that's the kind of feedback I have been getting about the band for several years. Since the band became the current lineup of TIZER a lot of people say it's like a modern version of a throwback to the heyday of some of the jazz fusion stuff.
SV: Oh definitely. There were parts of it that reminded me of Mahavishnu because of Karen and Jeff and Chieli, the guitar and electric violin interplay. There is a little bit of Return To Forever, and there is a song, “Dreamcatcher,” I think, that had some real Weather Report undercurrents to it, at least to my ears. Some of the acoustic guitar and piano passages reminded me of early Pat Metheny Group and the title song reminded me of Jeff Beck. It's like you took the essence of some of the best parts of the fusion era and yanked them 30 years forward, then pulled them into your sound and added all of your own musical identities to the soup.
LT: I am always really honored when people mention bands like that, how we remind them of those bands but are different from them and have our own identity. One of the big things that makes us different is that I try to bring in a strong and accessible melodic component. That has always been a signature of my writing as a solo artist and with the band. There are not a lot of ridiculously fast lines in the melody. That may happen in the solos and sections of the songs, but the melodic content is always accessible. That's important to me because I like a melody that I can sing back. I like melodies that are memorable.
SV: I think that's why this album can reach an audience that goes beyond people who are already inclined to like adventurous or edgy music.
LT: The average listener wants a melody they can connect with and as a listener I do too. It's not about how tricky the melody is; it is about what it conveys. We focus on keeping the melodic nature of the song accessible even if there are other things about the song that may be more challenging. The other thing is the Afro-Cuban flair that (drummer) Raul Pineda and Jesus Diaz, the percussionist on most of the tracks, bring to this music. Raul has always really encouraged us to accentuate the world music nature of the band and I totally agree. “Coming of Age” is a tune that really exemplifies this. It has this vibe that is very Americana and even kind of bluegrass vibe but if you listen to the rhythm section and percussion they bring in this kind of world beat thing underneath. Mixing those types of flavors together is what makes us unique.
SV: I think that we are generally getting more of a musical world view. You hear music from other countries everywhere - from in dance fitness classes to movies to the music features on NPR
and movies. There is a lot more opportunity for musical exploration now.
LT: I love working with this diversity of musicians. One thing about working with this music, jazz, world fusion, whatever you want to call it, is that since there are no lyrics it becomes the universal language. We represent the kind of inclusiveness that we would all like to see in humankind. It is a multinational and multicultural band and we tour the country and the world together and work hard and have a lot of fun together.
SV: Is this the first time you have produced one of your albums?
LT: I co-produced it with Jeff and it is the first time I've been the producer or co-producer. Basically I led the sessions in the studio and Jeff and I worked extremely hard together on the overdubs, editing, and mixing. Jeff is
the last original band member left from when I started the Lao Tizer Band. I met him in 1998 and I met Chieli in 1997. Jeff has had a huge impact on me musically and those two guys have been the most influential figures in my life growing up as a musician and a band leader. I am proud of having played that role on this record. I've made enough albums and been through the process enough times that I could step forward and be mature enough to take that role. It was up to me to guide the project the best way I know how, get a lot of input from the band, and, understanding how talented these musicians are and what they have to say, follow my gut from there.
SV: Obviously the thing I love about Jeff is the rock influence. Then you bring in Chieli, who comes from a band that was playing world fusion before there was even such a word.
LT: I do love really accentuating that too. I remember Jeff overdubbed a solo on one of the tracks and he was concerned that it was too edgy or too rock. I said this record was us doing what we do and that is a big part of what we do. I think that's when he really knew I meant it that this one was about not holding back.
SV: This is one of the few albums I have heard where you capture the energy and the sound of a live show. Somebody could see the band live and basically take it home with them. Most times you get a really diluted version of the artist's live show.
LT: I wanted to capture the energy of the band live because that has always been what people respond to. That has been our signature and that's what has built up whatever kind of stature we have now. We get out on the road, get in front of audiences; we tour a lot both here and overseas. I wanted to capture that energy but with the kind of sophisticated arrangements and production qualities that you can only do in the studio. I wanted the listener to feel the energy in the tracks and hear a lot of depth and nuance that fill out the sonic landscapes, too.
SV: It makes a statement from the opening song because you start out edgy with “Acid Rain,” which is very fusion-ish and powerful. Then you go into some really elegant lyrical songs and guitar-shred funk and Latin sounding acoustic and the last track which is really meditative. It all meshes beautifully, which is quite a thing to pull off.
LT: That's one thing that is important to me. You can be as diverse as you want but you do have to have an identity. You need to be able to listen to every track and still say that it sounds like the same band, even when the songs sound really different. I think the trick is having a common thread and utilizing all the different flavors and different influences to accentuate the tracks and make each one interesting within its own framework but still fitting into the whole.
SV: The next step is that you've got this beautiful piece of work and it drops into your lap to make sure it gets heard because the infrastructure that used to support you isn't there anymore. You have been one of the most proactive artists on this front as far as really busting your butt to get it out there. This one is so important that I feel like it's almost a crusade to get it heard so more people can enjoy it, and know that music like this exists and it isn't scary.
LT: If we can get the album heard to the level we want and hope and feel that it deserves I think we have the opportunity to reignite a fan base that might have become somewhat disillusioned and we can ignite a whole other fan base that doesn't even know about it but will dig it when they hear it. One thing I have been really working on is that we want to break in to the jam band scene and play those kind of festivals where the younger instrumental and eclectic music fans. We are getting closer to it and I know it is going to happen, although maybe not as fast as I would like it to (laughs). I know they will love the band live and get off on the level of musicianship and what we do on stage. If we can expose them to what we are doing then hopefully we will be able to bridge some gaps between people who would be interested in the kind of music this band is doing and other bands that may be doing something similar, whether it is jam band, contemporary jazz, or anything in between.
SV: Getting one foot up in the discovery process is tough right now because the industry is still focused on genre and they are the gatekeepers between the audience that wants to explore more and the artists who can take them there. Being one of the first to break that barrier is a big challenge.
LT: It is. There are a lot of blessings in this process but what people should know is that it takes a tremendous amount of work and tenacity to make it happen. It is hard as an artist because I do a lot on my own on the business side as well as the artistic side. I am really grateful to have some amazingly generous partners who have allowed this record to be possible, and to have my fellow cohorts in the band who work so hard on the road, in rehearsals and in the studio. We are growing, and there are always growing pains when you are on a journey. Each configuration of the band is a different thing so we are always finding ways to keep it fresh. We are finding ourselves and we are exploring where each song is going. Believe me, it's an immense amount of work to have to dig in and make sure this thing gets heard at the level that it deserves to be. I believe that if it does there will be a warm reception from a lot of people. I know from the response at shows and the compliments we get that there is room for a band that has a lot of energy and is fresh and exciting. I think we stand out as something new and different.
SV: Well what I think you have done here is to give us a big and beautiful gift and one that can open some doors musically for both the musicians who want to push the limits and get more adventurous, and music fans who want to hear that happen. 
